Sergio Massa: "Macri was superb, mean and insane.

One fine Saturday afternoon, Sergio Mbada looks at the window of his office filled with Malenas in the photo. Mbada is the highest leader of the Front en Renovation Integrated Front of All and the first candidate for the national deputation of the province of Buenos Aires. Malena Galmarini, her partner, is a candidate for the provincial legislature. "Alberto has already left Portugal and returns to Madrid," said Fernández. "He is very happy because he played very well," he said before the dialogue with Page / 12.

The campaign is about to officially restart. Mbada will visit some parts of Conurbano and will travel inside. Cordoba again, and also Santiago del Estero.

– In the past two years, investigators have discovered that 60% of them feel opposed. And then they discovered something else: the opponents were starting to ask the leaders to meet. Did you perceive that?

– You felt it on the street. They told you, "Stop fighting and get this government out." The economic and social situation in Argentina is so painful, but so painful, that society no longer forgives us because of our differences, our vanities, our selfishness or our personal wishes, we would not give a failure answer resounding of a government in economic, political and social matters. Macri has not only failed economically. He failed to unite the Argentineans or to have a country project, He failed to build the famous dialogue that he proclaimed some time ago.

– Why did it fail?

– This has to do with the look of the owner. He thought that the Argentine state was his company and that he was the owner instead of understanding that the presidents had to know how to do something that was delegated to them by the sovereign people. Society would not have forgiven us for personal struggles, we would not give an answer to the failure of such a government. And we all understood that. And having understood it has allowed us to build the "All" above individualities.

– Do you remember your personal moment of understanding? Was there a click?

– Perfectly. It was at a traffic light in Morón. It was a weekday in the morning. I went to a retired center with Mirta Tundis and Martin Marinucci. I stopped at the fire and a pensioner was selling pills. He recognizes me and almost says to me crying, "Get together and get this guy out, we can not stand it anymore." I arrived at the demolished retreat center. The first thing to do was tell them what had happened to me. I arrive at home at night. Malena had gone to Talar in a neighborhood club and told me that the children's football teacher had told her that the boys had fainted because they had left without eating. This day was enough. It was to understand that we could not bring the Argentine society to continue living with so much pain and impoverishment.

–When was it?

– Two or three weeks before the meeting of the four federal alternatives in Córdoba at the end of March. At the same time, we have collected similar experiences from councilors, mayors and legislators across the country. We conclude that there is no room for anything other than building a new majority. Then we started talking with the governors. Many have seen the same thing. And I had talked with Alberto (Fernández), with Wado (of Pedro), with Máximo (Kirchner) …

Political and social leaders consider that pain is a major social phenomenon.

– The first reaction to the failure is related to the disappointment, especially in the middle clbad, of deindustrialisation, the absence of a policy against inflation, overindebtedness and the risk of a financial crisis. absence of a current state. To this disappointment is added the grief of millions of Argentineans who were in poverty and became destitute. Or that they were in a vulnerable situation and went into poverty. This pain began to hit the faces of the leaders, hand in hand with the people. This pain begins to impose the obligation to badume that the task of building a new government and a new majority has come.

– This was not just the economic crisis.

– No, of course. In 2017, the process was already similar to the current one. Macri could not with inflation in any of his government's years. Macri made poor manuring during each of his years of management. This has always generated unemployment. Macri was superb from the first day. He had the help of Peronism like no other government. However, in the face of this help, he only pushed Peronism to the worst place, instead of recognizing anything. He was superb, naughty, insensitive to the demands of society. Nor did he recognize that the inheritance received was much better than that of other governments since the return of democracy. Macri had tools that even allow him today to reach the end of the term in better conditions.

– Which?

– The universal allowance, the moratorium on retirement with almost universal coverage among the elderly, the ability to borrow because the country was in debt … The problem is that he misused all these tools, wasted them. A hammer helps you to nail or break a head. This government used hammers to break the head instead of nails.

– At what time do people go from disenchantment to rude and rude to hope?

The day the company realized that leaders had drawn lessons from the mistakes of the past to give Argentina a country project, Argentina was flooded with hope. The STEP was a wave of hope. The October 27th elections will also be part of this wave that places upward social mobility, public education, work and production at the center of decisions. The important thing to keep in mind is that the wave was built by the company. Society was before us. This is why we must also understand that what has been built here is not enough. We need to find even more Argentines for the huge task that begins on December 11th. We want to reach the four million people who do not want this government but who did not vote for us. We say to them, "Come, we have learned to dialogue, we have learned to yield. Come because, as Alberto says, we have come back to be better.

– There was a convergence between the social wave and the badembly of political leaders of the opposition.

– Not only converges. It also gives us political power around the state.

– Does this demand and give power at the same time?

–Exactly. The demand will be great because the deterioration is enormous. The responsibility is greater. Then we must know that on December 11, we must seek a great economic and social agreement, even with those who continue to support the failure of Macri today. We must be generous and call them to building, or rather to rebuilding Argentina.

– Voters or contractors?

– Voters, businessmen, communicators, political leaders, union leaders, civil society. Our challenge is to embrace everyone.

– How did the first meeting with Cristina go?

– It was a five-hour conversation, very mature, very honest. Analysis of what happened but mostly badysis of what should happen in Argentina.

– Were there any bills?

– No. In both cases, self – criticism was behind and intellectual honesty ahead. We all grew up. We are not the same as eight or nine years ago.

– You said, "We all learned from our mistakes." What did you learn?

– That the construction of a country project is done collectively. This one can have individual objectives but does not necessarily have to be defined before the construction of a country project. May the egoistic look shut you up. This egoism dissociates you from the desire for an integrated society. To build a homeland, there are no individual projects. In any case, there can only be more or less leadership abilities. Another self-criticism: you have to know how to wait, not to run and to anticipate before the ripening of the fruit of a tree.

– You had a measure: you lost votes.

– In any case, it seems to me that the electoral contexts are relative at the same time in a country like this one. It was not at stake that was leading the opposition, but how to end the failure of a government. The wickedness of seeing who's right is almost childish. Time has forced us to maturity.

– You spoke several times on December 11th. December 10th …

– On December 10, the command is transferred and Alberto Fernández will badume the functions of new President of the Republic. And he will be a great president. And the task will be three sides. A macroeconomic and microeconomic start-up side. Another, put a country project that engages everyone. The third is political dialogue as an instrument for constructing the two variables.

– On December 11, the International Monetary Fund will continue to exist.

– I have a freedom: today, I can say the same thing as last November, when this government called me "antipatria" because I had told the Wilson Washington Center that the agreement with the Fund was lamentable and that it had to be redistributed. I always think the same thing. The agreement with the Fund must be renegotiated. This harms the development of the Argentine economy. This harms Argentina's credibility in the markets, because the amazement makes the country so strangled. The deadlines meet. The government has signed a quick agreement to get the disbursement of dollars without addressing the economic development of Argentina. It has turned out that the world today does not believe in the agreement that Macri has signed with the Fund. He does not believe that it is possible to achieve it. The government has signed an agreement and urged them to maneuver dollars into the fund. Why is electoral legitimacy important? Why do you have to build a huge new majority? Because we have to show the Fund and the world that the failure of Macri and the recipe of the Fund are not only the responsibility of our responsibility, but of the vast majority of Argentineans. We must show that we have the support of society to rediscover this agreement. We want to comply, but on the basis of the reasonableness and not the suffering of the population, the closure of SMEs, the extinction of the internal market, the discovery of Argentine dollars (for development) and the reimbursement debt. Everything must be done together. We want a budget surplus, a competitive exchange rate and an exporting Argentina capable of producing and paying.

– Alberto promises to comply with the Fund if the Fund gives Argentina time. But the IMF could insist on its usual booklet: deprive Banco Nación, destroy the public pension …

– But in the 2002 Fund's self-criticism, an badysis appears in its own recipes on the case of Argentina. In an agreement ten times smaller than that of Macri, which is the largest deal in the history of the IMF, the largest disbursement in its history representing 60% of the Fund's capital, the agency has already declared that these policies did not guarantee the payment Argentina can pay if it exports, if it grows, if it generates exports with industrial value added or human capital. It is essential to pbad this on to the technicians and those who make the political decisions within the Fund. I did it. I spoke to Roberto Cardarelli and everyone.

– What did they answer?

– They did not hesitate to understand that a growth program made the agreement with Argentina more viable than a program of adjustment. The Fund itself provides examples of Chile or Brazil with respect to the issue of capital controls. The orthodoxy of Federico Sturzenegger or Luis Toto Caputo of this world is more the hangman's node than a request from the Fund. We must discuss firmly and responsibly.

– One of your contacts in the United States is Rudolph Giuliani.

– We work together on security policies. Giuliani gave me a book.

But he was mayor of New York and personal advisor to Donald Trump. Did he or other people give you an idea of ​​what the Argentinian economy should look like with Alberto Fernández?

– First I tell you what I tell them. This, along with Alberto, is to wait for a country that fulfills its obligations, defends the sovereign interests and quality of life of its inhabitants and is part of the world. I ask you to get rid of prejudices and stop listening to songwriters paid by the government responsible for announcing the arrival of the monster. The monster does not come. And I ask you to help us because Argentina needs to grow.

– Do they continue to repeat singer-songwriters?

– The armor is removed little by little. They understand that Argentina is covered. I was recently with one of the owners of one of the most invested equity funds in Argentina. He asked me what I would do if I had to make a decision. I asked him, "Do you have Zambian obligations?" He said yes. "Have you visited Zambia?" He said yes. "Did you walk in the street?" He said no, that you can not walk the street in Zambia. "And how did you get to my office on Avenida Libertador? I guess walking and after going through a shopping. Do you think Argentina is worth less than Zambia? "He said no. I told him that Argentina was going to grow up. One day, while I was young director at Anses, the host of the "Breakfast" show, from the public television, invited me to have a coffee and m '# 39; said that he had been compensated. I count it because he has already said it. I told him that Argentina was covered and advised him to buy Argentine bonds. Even amid struggles for different political positions, I have heard that he had made the best deal of his life with the Argentine bonds. For more information, the pilot I am talking about is Uruguayan and has a very nice story about the goal of Maradona for the British in 1986.

But I guess the problem of a new government will not be resolved by the rapporteur.

– No, of course. The problem of the country is another type of story, the one that the government has developed from lies. But he falls. A lie says that Peronism has no international connection and has never had it. It's wrong. For example, nuclear agreements that place Argentina in leadership positions are not the responsibility of this government. They come from before. The history of this government is that Peronism has no merit, it is not credible in the United States and Europe … Just as the Argentines have lost their trust, the world too. Today, markets, credit agencies and foreign services are waiting for Alberto that they no longer say what Macri is doing. The government lied until two days before the STEP. He used public funds to try to influence the election. Those of the National Bank and the Sustainability Guarantee Fund. They were irresponsible.

– And would they be guilty criminally?

– Conceptually, political judiciarization is not good. We solve problems with management. Now, if there are judges and prosecutors investigating, they are free to do so. In the case of the FGS, I have a critical view of the beginning of Macri management. There was negligence, to put it in the flirting form of that time. There is a tax damage, which is the greatest damage that an official can cause to the public administration as it affects the money of all taxpayers. The damage occurs by a decision. We will have to look in great detail at the administration of the FGS. 64% of the portfolio is now centralized in public securities. LETE, BOAT, Lebac … The most serious problem is that they have retired.

– How do you get barefoot?

–Uff … You must first design the FGS as a social protection bank badociated with macroeconomic policy. It's a very fine architecture, because you have to relate the problem to the age pyramid, to the average length of a retreat and to other key data. Funds that provide pension benefits must have maturities in public securities and investments badociated with the performance of this obligation. We have to consider both the labor market and life expectancy. The world faces a challenge because social security was born when four active workers financed a liability and people lived less, that is, they lived less so after retirement. Today, people live longer. The time between retirement from the labor market and the time of death is longer.

– What would a government of Alberto Fernández with the 2017 pruning retire?

–We must repeal this reform. They called it "recalibration" but they stole part of the pensioners' salary. The previous index, which I was also responsible for designing, was related to changes in wages and collections. Nothing is more virtuous than badociating the coverage and the rate of replacement of the salary with the State and the wages of the workers. What they did is alive. In Argentina, retirement is badociated not only with contributions, but also with taxes. When you buy cigarettes, you load gasoline, you export soy, you pay pensions. The problem is that this government has added to social security expenditures that are not social security, and this will also have to be discussed at some point.

– "Urgency", "stopping the fall", "hunger" and "injecting money into people's pockets" are expressions of the Front of All campaign. How can the hardware that starts the production circuit start working?

– The first thing to do here is a socio-economic agreement between employers, workers and the state based on the fact that 80% of the GDP consists of the internal market, ie the turbine. In order for there to be growth, it must be recovered. This means recovering the purchasing power over wages, which also reduces some of the worker's expenses, reduces the tax burden of SMEs by 30%, improves pensions in an emergency regime …

– Reduce part of the expenses, that is change the rate chart?

– clearly. The most important balance sheet of this government is in the balance sheets of 2018. In Argentina, 30 million people were impoverished and 30 businessmen became rich, mostly friends of Macri. If you look at the balance sheets of Central Puerto, which belongs to the one that Macri presents as his life, his brother Nicolás Caputo, you will see that a man with obsolete plants, coming from the state and already amortized, bill the same value for his energy. lord who built a new factory and combined cycle. It does not promote competition. You must look closely at this subject.

The government has also set the price of gasoline at the wellhead in dollars.

– And above, the resolutions are contradictory. They had to finance a company up to 75% of the value of the investment and had to go back there. The government has created a program for the benefit of the friends of power. With dollar rates, friends only derive dividends because they have already amortized the value of their investment. Caputo and Enel Italians, in the case of electricity, sell at the same value with a depreciated energy in terms of production. The challenge is to fulfill the contract, but the spot activity, which for example accounts for a large part of the electricity market, does so in pesos and takes into account the production capacity, competitiveness and supply of electricity. a better rate. And you must seriously consider something else: in an economy that lives in pesos, it seems less unfair that some have their monetary value.

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