Arturo Sosa, the “black pope”: “Maduro is at the head of a dictatorial regime”

ROMA – Since being elected Superior General of the Jesuits in October 2016, when he became the first non-European to lead the congregation founded 500 years ago by Saint Ignatius of Loyola, Venezuelan father Arturo Sosa was always sparing when he spoke about his country, where her nonagenarian mother and a sister still live.

In a book he has published now in conversation with the Spanish journalist, Darius minor, entitled “On the road with Ignacio”, Sosa, also referred to as “the black pope” – because of the color of his coat and his lifetime tenure – explained why. “I cry, I cry. More pain than rage. Everything that has happened is very difficult. I never imagined that so much could be destroyed “He confessed, when asked how he feels when he sees what Venezuela is like now.

In the book – which he wrote on the occasion of the Ignatian year, which commemorates the 500th anniversary of the battle in which Ignacio de Loyola, on May 21, 1521, suffered an injury which led to a transformation life deep -, Sosa, 72, with a degree in philosophy and theology and a doctorate in political science, also revealed that he knew Hugo Chávez well, who was the beginning of the sinking of his country. In fact, she was going to visit him in prison after his 1992 coup.

“Our relationship was good, but critical. We argued a lot, even though he said we saved his life. One way or another, it’s true. After his incarceration, they wanted to transfer him with other colleagues to another prison and it was feared that they would kill him during the trip. The Jesuit who collaborated with the prosecution, a bishop and I offered to accompany him in the vehicle. It was a very tense situation, but we wanted to build bridges, ”he said.

In an interview with THE NATION In a room of the General Curia of Borgo Santo Spirito, a few meters from the Vatican, Father Sosa spoke more about his punished country, where he admitted that Nicolás Maduro, whom he has never met, heads a dictatorial regime.

-In the book, you cry for Venezuela, you affirm that your exit is overcoming Chavismo, free and transparent elections, and underlines that a major obstacle is that the opposition is very fragmented. He also says that there were opportunities that were not taken advantage of: what was he referring to?

-I am thinking, for example, of the legislative elections of 2015 and this last, in which the opposition did not appear, two occasions where something else could have been done, politically more effective, even if the elections were not won in terms of an absolute majority. But the opportunity to ratify that this is the way has been missed. Because we do not go to the elections only when we win, we go to the elections because it is a space in which there is the possibility, among other things, to connect with the population, to make proposals, to make people understand the forces are there, in play, and there, these opportunities were lost. And negotiating opportunities were also lost …

-Are you referring to the famous mediation in which the Vatican was (2014-15) and two years ago, the one mediated by Norway?

-Yes. So there were many opportunities that were not exploited. Each can be analyzed in more detail, but specifically on the part of the opposition, there was not enough clarity to enter it with a long-term political vision and on the part of the government because it knew how to manipulate it. to strengthen its power …

-A few weeks ago, Italian Prime Minister Mario Draghi did not use euphemisms and called Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan a dictator. Would you call Maduro a dictator?

-Of course the regime is a dictatorial regime and Maduro is the leader of this dictatorial regime. Only that I have a media fight, because the media always tend to give more to the person than to the system. The problem is, the Venezuelan case is the system. The system is stronger than the person, I’m not going anywhere else, but in Venezuela that’s the big difference between Chávez and Maduro. Chávez had a conception of power reinforced by his relationship with Fidel Castro. It was the idea of ​​absolute power and it set up a system.

-You in the book compare him with the Duce …

– I do not compare him to Duce, but to the idea that in Venezuela, as in Argentina, the positivist theory was very powerful at the end of the 19th and the beginning of the 20th century. And one of the greatest Venezuelan positivist thinkers, Laureano Vallenilla Lanz, formulated the “democratic Caesar” theory, which seems a contradiction in terms, but which he justifies a lot. And one of the first things I said about Chávez was that he was repeating the “democratic Caesar” theory, to justify his presence in government when he won the elections in 1999. Not when he died after having governed.

-What do you think could happen in Venezuela, also in the context of the difficult situation in Colombia, the economic disaster and the pandemic?

-I hope and hope that this can evolve into a negotiation. I believe that precisely because of these unfavorable conditions, if we do not start the analysis of Venezuela and Latin America because of the human tragedy of the populations, in particular of the poor, we cannot really offer anything to long term. If it is proposed only as a struggle for power or to win an election, it is not set in stone. The problem is how the human problem is solved. In Venezuela and Latin America, Colombia, Brazil, for all Latin American countries …

-In Argentina…

-But in Venezuela it’s obvious … Starting from there and seeing the lack of economic and political means that exist at the moment, we have no other choice but to understand each other, than to find a way together. A way that is inclusive, because the question is not “take you off and put me on”, but how we include and how we negotiate to include ourselves.

–Was the Guaidó phenomenon a phenomenon or is it still something important?

-This is one of the ingredients that is there. And once again, Guaidó is not Guaidó, Guaidó is a movement that has made a place for itself in Venezuelan public life, it is something that we cannot do without …

-The Pope, in a video message he sent recently for the beatification of Venezuelan doctor José Gregorio Hernández, not only called for reconciliation, national unity and democratic stability, but also was totally against everything ” outside intervention ”.

-There are still people who do not know where they get the illusion that an invasion is possible … It is impossible and undesirable. It would not be a solution, it would change the problem.

-Although characters like Guaidó have external support …

-Yes, of course, but that’s also part of the negotiation. Negotiations will be carried out with international support, because credible elections must take place in international transparency. I believe that the Pope, on the one hand, first rejects a theme of invasion to heal and let others solve the problem. The others must accompany the solution of the problem, but it must be a problem that Venezuelans solve. Without support, it is much more difficult. And then you have already mentioned Colombia … Venezuela’s problems are not isolated in Latin America and are particularly closely linked to the Colombian question. In other words, the stumbling blocks in the Colombian peace process have a direct impact on Venezuela. And vice versa: the solution of Venezuela’s problems will undoubtedly contribute to peace in Colombia.

-Change of subject: How do you see Pope Francis in this eighth year of the papacy still marked by difficulties in his cleaning operation and corruption scandals?

-I see it as something admirable in Pope Francis. First, his immense confidence in what he does, confidence that comes from the spiritual strength he possesses. And second, that he really believes in processes. Well, it’s a process in which there are breakthroughs and setbacks, in which there are friends and enemies, in which there are curves and descents and climbs and he lives them that way. . He saw them with great serenity and great consistency … As they say in Venezuela “ in front of and over there ”

– Is the conversion of the curia he is looking for possible?

– Of course it is possible, but it is not easy … Besides, I believe that the stake is not the curia, the stake is the Church. The curia will change as synodality becomes the normal mode of operation of the Church. So the curies will change …

-Are the 15,000 Jesuits in the world all firm with the Pope, or do some continue to have resentments, as when he was elected in 2013 and many of them remained silent?

– There are many distinctions to be made here: one thing is very firm with the Pope and another is very firm with Francis. The Society of Jesus is always, by definition, firm with the Pope. Later, with all the popes, there was more or less tension, more or less confidence of the Pope in the Company and vice versa. In the case of Pope Francis, I think the Company, in general and with all the nuances that can exist among the Jesuits – my grandfather had a little box that said “ three Spaniards, four opinions ” – (laughs) , he feels that it is so. Because Pope Francis represents a person committed to the Church following the Second Vatican Council and in that she obtains the full support of the Society.