For a former Barack Obama adviser, "Macri has achieved extraordinary things in just 3 years"

Cbad Sunstein, one of the world's most influential law and economics experts, is in Buenos Aires to participate in meetings organized by Argentina 2030, the long-term and long-term program of the Chief Cabinet of Ministers of the nation led by Ivan Petrella. Lawyer, a specialist in deregulation, is the author of the phrase "nudge", which looks like a "push", which attempts to demonstrate that small gestures are a source of inspiration for changes of social life. "Often, we need something like a GPS, a GPS is a" boost "in the sense that it tells us how to get to our destination," said Professor Sunstein at Infobae.

The American professor also badyzed the situation of Argentina in the 2019 electoral process, the situation in Venezuela and the results of the administration of Barack Obama. Here, the complete dialogue:

Is this your first time here?

– I have never been here, it is wonderful to have the opportunity.

And what was your first impression?

– I've been impressed by the story, of course, I've read about it, but seeing it up close is a source of inspiration, seeing Casa Rosada is an honor and a source of inspiration. See the ingenuity and creativity of government members. I have had the opportunity to talk to people in my main field, the law, and to people who study constitutional law. It was brief but very exciting.

You talk about "nudging", it's a very interesting concept, I would like to know about it.

The basic idea is that in life, even if we are dealing with health problems, economic problems, problems with our children, food safety issues. Many times we need something like a GPS. A GPS is a "boost" in the sense that it tells us how to get to our destination but we can ignore it and say "No, we have our favorite route" or "It's confusing, my GPS is confused today, "but that drives me. So, generally, when we are facing a problem, it's about dealing with the government, with a company, trying to keep our finances in order, or planning our retirement, or to help our children continue their education; we benefit from a "push", it's an intervention that allows us to say: "No, I do not like this" boost "", but that we is also moving in the right direction. We can be pushed to not smoke, to get enough sleep, to try a new course if we are educating ourselves, to live an adventure. For the private sector, pushing people in useful directions is a blessing. For the government, be a little reluctant to impose mandates and bans and perhaps more enthusiasm to provide people with their own GPS. I think it will be freedom in the 21st century.

We have the idea that the state needs big decisions and you talk about simple examples like smoking. I read this example on the fly in a urinal, these are small things that inspire great decisions.

-Yes, then, at the airport of Holland, they had a problem in men's toilets, they were not aiming properly and they painted a small fly in the urinal, which allowed to reduce the spill of more than 40%. There is a clue in this little example, we often need the equivalent of the fly, if we try to keep our finances in order, sometimes you do not pay attention and if there is a fly Like a mark on an invoice, a call or a text message that says "It's better that you pay now or you'll have to pay a fine", it's like the fly. And for people who are trying to overcome an addiction, maybe alcohol or who have cigarette problems, if they receive the equivalent of a fly, a reminder or a way where, if you do this or that, you can overcome your problem, it may change their lives.

That belonged to the Obama administration: how did the experience go, that is, facing the "thumbs up" of the world's leading government?

-I would say that the number of successful "thumbs up" is high enough, I have one of my personal favorites, a program in the United States that is designed to provide poor children with a free breakfast and lunch , nutritious and healthy. Many parents did not enroll their children in the program, which means they would starve or not eat healthy or a chocolate. The reason they did not write was that they found it irritating to have to process the forms or were afraid to be in communication with the government or did not understand it. So, what we were doing as a "push" was if we knew that kids could get into the program then they would automatically come in, just signing them. They were not obliged to take advantage of the program if they did not want it, or if the father wants to bring them another food, everything is fine, but they are automatically admitted. As a result each year more than 10,000,000 children enjoy free meals at school. This number is a statistic but each one of them is a human being whose life is a little better thanks to this "push".

How do you see this special moment in the United States with the Trump administration?

– In many ways, President Trump and President Obama do not agree, and on some points, of course, trade agreements, President Trump has rethought some of the things that President Obama believed. But what we are talking about now, the "thumbs up," there are very few differences. Our government is interested in fighting the use of cigarettes and there are educational campaigns and "thumbs up" that are effective. Our government is very interested in fighting death on highways. I know that there is also this problem in Argentina and that some measures can be taken to encourage people to drive more slowly or not to drive while intoxicated. Do not use your mobile phone while driving, and these are things that President Trump and President Obama do not totally disagree with, but they probably agree. Thus, different interventions designed to give people the equivalent of a GPS can constitute a warning on how to use sunscreen to protect against skin cancer or that works when you burn in the sun, but not to fight against skin cancer. be information about foods that can give you information about calories, it's an intervention, it's a "push", information about calories, which come from the # Obama administration and that the Trump administration has taken with enthusiasm. These interventions, which preserve freedom and save money and lives, may have even improved the functioning of government, have not divided the two administrations.

I like this expression a lot, a "boost" like a GPS, it's the road, this road, not the other.

– Yes completely. Then, I arrived in Buenos Aires and, thanks to God, they pushed me exactly where I had to go, because for a visitor, you do not know where to go to make migrations, nor where to go to get to l & # 39; money. The posters are beautiful at the airport of Buenos Aires, so if you visit it for the first time like me, it's a great pleasure. This is an example of an airport. In life, there are people whose children may be suffering from anxiety or depression and do not know what to do. They need a GPS to help them. Or maybe they have a legal problem, maybe someone treats them in a way that, in their opinion, breaks the law, they need a GPS . Governments around the world, from the United Kingdom to Australia, Qatar and the Netherlands, are using these ideas and some of the interventions are not huge. They could save three lives a year, but if you save three lives a year, three humans are not dead.

We are having a special moment around the world with the Trump administration, the Chinese government, the Brexit: do nudges work in this kind of world?

-Yes, whether you're excited about what's happening in China or nervous. Either you like Brexit or not. That you thought that President Trump is wonderful or not really. You probably think it's a good idea that the government is helping to promote economic growth, that the government is fighting premature death or that the government is providing educational opportunities for young people, or that the government is helping to reduce unemployment. These are goals that people share despite the differences on major issues. If you have an intervention, in the UK, they did some things to help people re-enter the job market and it worked. If you are doing an intervention that can help people to have more resources for their retirement. In Denmark and the United Kingdom and in several other countries, "pushes" of various kinds have helped. If you can redevelop the stores so that people first use healthy foods and chocolates, which I love and love, even if they are hidden, it's hard to turn away. chocolate but most people like what they see first they are interested in it If the government or the private sector can help its citizens to live longer and healthier or less suffer for the economy , the big problems of China and globalization seem important, but it is not the only thing that exists. .

What is happening with our country, our region? Latin America is experiencing a special moment with Venezuela. What do you think of the situation in Venezuela?

– Well, Venezuela … The people of the world are worried above all about the citizens of Venezuela, who have not benefited from a very functional government, in any way, in recent years. And there are high hopes that the road will be corrected. As a stranger, I would not like to give an opinion on the problem. I would say that as a visitor from Argentina, I did a little research before coming here as much as I could. Argentina is in many ways like a lighthouse in this region and for the world. And to see the possibilities for a government that has done a lot of good things, I know that some people insist on the progress to be made, but they have done great things in a short time. Opportunities for Argentina, in particular by ensuring that policies are well established, focusing on the consequences of policies instead of thinking abstractly about what divides us. If you work concretely with what is really done, I think that even before I come here, but more after, I am inspired by the possibilities for the next semester.

Arrive in Argentina in the middle of an electoral process: what do you think of the "nudges" and of this moment?

-Well, I think pushing people to participate in the political process is a very good idea. Pushing people to be aware of the problems that divide them is also a very good idea. Pushing people to treat each other with respect, which I have seen in all the places I have been here, so it may not be necessary; but in my country, a little more respect and courtesy would probably be indicated, so around the world, it's a good idea. By pushing people to realize that political disagreements are often disagreements about concrete facts, about what works and what does not work, instead of disagreements about values, they sometimes involve values, but in general they Concern this It works and what does not work. I hope Argentina will show incredibly creative uses of behavioral sciences and behavioral sciences over the next period. Of course, it all depends on what people choose, but given the fabulous results we have seen around the world and the many challenges that this country, like all countries, faces, truly promising opportunities.

Are you planning to meet President Mauricio Macri?

-We will see what the agenda looks like, I had the privilege of visiting Casa Rosada and being able to chat with several members of the government. The agenda is a work in progress, of course any visitor feels honored to meet someone who works for the government.

He was invited by the Macri administration. Do you have an opinion on the three years of his administration?

– As a visitor, I feel that two things are justified: humility and other gratitude. So, I am very grateful to be here, from what I've read, The current president has achieved extraordinarily impressive things in a short time. So, my immediate observation is that in the short term, excellent results have been achieved.

And what is your personal "boost"? The everyday one …

-My "personal boost" is: work hard from 9 am and stop working at 6 pm in the afternoon, do not necessarily work all the time between 9 and 6 pm, but if i start at 9 o'clock and i stop i have two young children. At 6, it's probably a good day.