Gioconda Belli: "Women's revolution frightens men"

He does not stop smiling despite the interview marathon he gave during his visit to the Buenos Aires Book Fair, where he came to present his latest book. Memory fevers, the story of his great-great-grandfather. "I like coming, it's the only city where I can have ice at 2 am," he says in a burst of laughter.

Nicaraguan Gioconda Belli is a celebrity in Spanish letters. Winner of countless awards, she has become a pillar of literature claiming the rights of women with bold, determined and contradictory female characters: "I like to say the right and the back of my characters, the part you like and the one you love, you hate them, "he explains to Infobae.

In this interview, she talks about feminism as "the greatest revolution of the twentieth century" and stops at the politics of Latin America: "We are in a failure.alvo Evo Morales in Bolivia, we had an authoritarian left. We are now backing away with governments like Bolsonaro in Brazil and Macri in Argentina. "However, his biggest criticism addresses his country:" It is incredible that the story of a revolution ends with a factual and undemocratic process. . A dictator has engendered another dictator ", sentence with reference to Daniel Ortega.

Here we share the full interview:

– What do you perceive of the city when you arrive in Buenos Aires?

– I love the city and its things are very interesting. Now, for example, I was at La Biela, I saw Borges sitting there (laughs). And also this beautiful tree there is. I do not know, there is a life in the city that I like. It's the only city where I can eat ice cream at 2 am (laughs).

– That's it, it's guaranteed. You said Borges and for a woman as important as you in lyrics, what is Borges?

– A master. That is to say, as a bridge that takes you to another world. Aleph, himself aleph.

– Himself, in itself is all the time and all the space.

– Totally. Well, your last book is a very interesting trip to go through your past and find a story I guess you would know, but you know a lot more, right?

– Yes, because I knew that the legend circulated in my family. And also the whole story of my father, who was a person who did not know who his parents were until the age of 18. He grew up believing that his grandmother and grandfather were his parents. They even registered her as the son of her grandparents. And at age 18, they tell him that he had a grandmother in this town called Matagalpa and that the one he thought was his brother was actually his father. Then, when I grew up with three extremely enraged grandmothers, I did not understand why I had three paternal grandmothers and, little by little, they told me the story and history also included this mysterious ancestor who were small town inventions saying that he was a French Duke arrived in Nicaragua. But there is a historian in Matagalpa who has studied a lot, that is to say deeper in the story, and conversing with him, he had pictures of the guy, he had testimonials from him. 39; era. Then I became more interested. And that I was getting hold of the things I had to do until the day when I said good, I'm going to write this novel, is not it?

– We do not talk much about the novel, but this Duke goes away for a reason that the reader will find: did you like his story? Say, did you like this search for freedom and this search for several places?

– Of course, I liked it. And I often identified myself because I lived first in political exile from 75 to 79 years old, then in another type of exile because I lived in the United States because I married a correspondent half-American and half-European stranger. Then I went to live after the end of the revolution in the 90s, I went to live for many years in the United States. So, this mimicry, what you need to do to live elsewhere, right? I also put other names when I was in guerrilla warfare. I had to invent stories about myself, right? Who was I? Pretending another personality And already in exile in the United States, it was another language, and I badert that it is another person in another language, right?

– And then I do not know, I believe that all these points have brought me closer to the story in an identification process. And on the other hand this time it is so huge, right? Because this wave of migration is present again. I mean, I think the world has gone through so many waves. And in the novel, I'm talking about the wave of Irish potato starvation. And so many things come together, because what fascinates me in novels, is the discovery that we made. I think the book that cost me the most is memory because I knew what was going on.

– of course. You just said that you were in exile, you participated in revolutionary processes. You were in the United States. Today, what do you see, which Latin America do you see? Nothing less today, where there is a very impressive movement in Venezuela. Which Latin America do you see?

– Well, I think we are, there is some kind of movement backwards, right? There was a moment so full of hope when there were so many leftist governments that there seemed to be a return, a more popular political management, a benefit for the poorest. But I have the feeling that there was a great diversity in the fact that there was a certain greater importance of the most needy population but, on the other, very authoritarian. So it was an authoritarian left, except perhaps for Evo who did a lot of things. Well, and Lula, no? But that put an end to this process of corruption.

So, I do not know, I see that we are currently in a process of flux that will drop. Bolsonaro in Brazil. Here, Macri. In Nicaragua, what is happening is a terrible thing. That is, one dictator generated another dictator. And a dictator who had a revolutionary past that transformed the Sandinista Front, which was a flag of struggle, of rebellion, into an authoritarian party …

– Yes, factious, totally.

– I really care about your look because you … do you still define yourself as the revolutionary woman who dreamed of a better country?

– of course. I am a dreamer and I am a lost romantic. And also militant to believe. Because I believe that what happens in history, it is that we live it very little time. One of the things I liked in the novel, is that there is quite a reference to the French Revolution. The French Revolution is one of the most important revolutions and nevertheless the Terror came after the Revolution, came back Napoleon, the monarchy. In other words, it was about a hundred years before the Republic became reality. And many people have read an essay by Shelley who was so disappointed by the French Revolution and I say that all of this will end well.

– We are at this moment.

– But we will not see him.

– of course. In all your work, in all your work, there are women who are brave, women who are less romantic, but romantic, but who do things.

– Is this the moment of the woman, do you feel that?

– Absolutely. I think, well, I think the world is a little scared, right? The male world, with all that happens in women. But I think it's so fundamental that women take their place in the world. And he had to accept it a bit by pushing very hard, because the resistance was very strong and it is still. But I think less and less. Each time, there will be less resistance in a certain stratum. At least, I think there are more men conscious now. And of course, there are the violent, those who kill women because they do not understand what is happening.

– I always say that feminism puts so much into question the established order that, for this reason, it is fought with such force.

– Say, there is no other current, it seems to me, there is no other current as powerful as feminism.

– What I'm saying is that the women's revolution was the greatest revolution of the twentieth century. Because what is a revolution, something that changes the way you live, it changes your culture. And the women's revolution since its beginnings in the 1970s has changed the way we live. If you see Mad Men there, you realize in the 50s how was the position of women in society and now it is totally different. And then we are dealing with one of the very serious issues, harbadment, that almost all women have experienced.

– And the rights of the woman, her body, all of this, of course, cause earthquakes in society because it is a custom that has to stop. A way to be that needs to be finished. But I think it goes to the best of the human being. That is, we are going to be better human beings.

And the woman must also fight for other things. I think it's not just the fight for abortion, I think we have to fight, for example, because it ends in this division between motherhood and work. How do you make sure that the woman does not die having to decide if she has a child, what she will do, whether she takes care of it or goes to work. In other words, it is still an essential problem that could be solved thanks to the wonderful daycares installed in the work centers, which would give tax incentives to all companies so that they can have these daycares, that the people be ready to see them and the woman can go to work, leave your child in the daycare and take a coffee to badfeed. This could be changed.

– And also grant the man the right to exercise his paternity at home and share it, right?

– But note that even in Scandinavian countries where they have six months, 70% of household chores are performed by women.

– What risk is there to advance feminism of something that caused the opening of the Book Fair, Rita Segato, where you were ?: It does not make the mistake of becoming the paradigm of those men we are fighting. How is this risk fought?

– Well, for example, in the novel that I've written right now, it's kind of a question of what's going on with the man who meets two women who are not women, how about , which have the characteristics that we badociate with femininity. They are caring, that they are sweet and kind women.

– With hard and difficult women. And also a complexity, an obsession, jealous, that does not pay attention to children. And this man, the duke, was a very paternal man. That I do not invent it, that I found in my research. He took care of the children. He took care of the housekeeper. It was responsible for seeing that they had education and even almost separated the woman from the relationship with her children because the woman was very selfish, egocentric, obsessed. So I think that tooWe must learn to put ourselves in each other's shoes, right? That we do not turn feminism into a war against men, which many men think. But it's about being able to integrate as different people, but we also have common goals. If we consider happiness as common goals. I have a novel called The country of women where I say that the doctrine of feminism is the Congratulations (laughs), the pursuit of happiness, which is the most important thing.

– Nothing less. It should be almost indisputable that the Congratulations to be … the Congratulations in power, like a great speech. And on the way to Congratulationsor at least the recognition of parity, in what state are we?

– More or less. Yes because, for example, in Latin America, we had paradoxically seven women presidents between 90 and 2000 years. But there were seven women presidents. Nowhere in the world has there been so many women presidents in any region. And yet, it is a very macho world region. We have so many women presidents that, on the other hand, the most terrible violence against women is also happening in Latin America. In the world, we have records in the world of violence. So the parity is going to be a fight but I think it's coming, it's going in that direction. Of course, we have places like the Middle East where, for example, I feel sorry every time I see a veiled woman and her clothes. It gives me a lot of anger to have them like that. But in the United States, many women have entered Congress right now. But still missing.

– When reading your novel, you have the impression that your grandfather has more hope than expectations. I distinguish between hope and expectation. Hope is almost an act of others. We expect something to happen because I do it, because I promote it. He is a man, despite everything that happens to him, great expectations.

– Yes, well, what I like about this character, who is my great-great-grandfather, is its complexity. Because I had a hard time making complex characters and that I think to stay, I had characters full of complexity that are neither good nor bad, they can have great moments, sublime by saying, and at the same time, moments of great human misery. So, I think he has a lot of expectations when he suddenly realizes that he is alive, right? Because in the beginning he wants to die. And he wants to die because he does not want to start life again, he does not want to create an identity again because he's a man who has had everything, duke, with money, with beautiful palaces, with a social respect. Then, the story of the loss of power is abandoned. From this social power. A loss of social power that is offset by an enrichment of the human being. He acquires humanity by losing what has come as an inheritance. And then I loved this process too, he comes to imagine being a couple from France come to a small town in Nicaragua to finish doctor, to regain the love that he thought was lost forever. And it's fascinating.

And this historic moment where the Revolution of 1848 is taking place in France, there is the migration of the Irish, the beginning of New York. All these scenarios are the ones where he goes. And Nicaragua because Nicaragua was very important when there was a gold rush and people had to travel from New York to the Strait of Magellan to get to California. Then the trip was risky, then they started looking for intermediate routes and this guy like Commodore Cornelius Vanderbilt, a fascinating character, discovers that you can go through Nicaragua. And the beginning of this road, called El Tránsito, which entered through the San Juan River and pbaded through Lake Nicaragua and Lake Nicaragua, 25 km from the Pacific. And there a boat was waiting for them. Then they could spend very little time, like a week. And avoid the big trip.

– And what are your expectations? What do you want for you?

– now The first thing I want is for Nicaragua to become a republic, as we say, and to come out of this terrible moment we are living.. I would like to see politically a better situation in Latin America. And I want to write more, I have a lot of ideas of things to write. I would like to travel differently, stay longer in Buenos Aires for example.

– And let them know you a little.

– To know a little more, yes.

– There is a beautiful book by an Argentine author, Andrés Rivera, who is Revolution is an eternal dream. Is revolution an eternal dream?

– Yes, it's like utopia in a certain way. Because I believe that the revolution starts from the idea that you will start from scratch and never do it again, right? You have to wear all the history that is behind, with all the customs, culture, political castes. So yes, it's a dream. But it is important to think, I think, that it is important to aspire to the revolution. It's like utopia that I think it's important that the idea of ​​utopia exists, even if we never have it.

– It's almost where you walk, right?

– That's to say, even if someone in the background knows that he's not going to reach it, but hey, that's where it is -low.

– It's so human. Because we also invented the sky. So, I am not religious, but many people think that they will die and go to heaven and work to go to heaven, is not it? So, for me, my sky is a utopia, maybe I'll never get there, maybe … But I think it's a good aspiration, it's worth it.

– I liked it a lot, my paradise is a utopia.

– And we look at your sky. We are small, right?

– We are far. But you have to go somewhere.