Hamilton Mourão: "If Moro had been biased in his judgment, Lula would be free"

The vice president of Bolsonaro defended the actions of the former president of Lava Jato in the sentence of the former president; He expressed his desire to see the "Conservative program" progress in Mercosur

The Brazilian Vice President,
Hamilton Mourãothere is no one to stop him. The president himself
Jair Bolsonaro,
former captain of the army, repeatedly asked him to reduce his visibility, but Mourão, who has the rank of general in force, is keen to freely express his opinions, as he did when he received
THE NATION in
Brasilia.

In the corridors of Plbadto's palace, this 65-year-old soldier with native blood and married to a reserve lieutenant, 22 years younger than him, is nicknamed the peacemaker. Unlike other vice presidents,
Mourão is a piece of weight in this administration. With his quiet tone, his command of speech – he speaks Portuguese, English and Spanish – and a mixture of diplomacy and pragmatism, he has tried to moderate the controversial remarks of the president, to control recurrent crises and to give the government a clearer direction of the months

Mourão defended the performance of the current minister
Sergio Moro in the
Wash jato, and said that "if I had been biased in the judgment
Luiz Lula da Silvain the second case, the sentence had already been reversed "to the former president jailed since 2018.

-How much do Jair Bolsonaro's controversies affect the government?

-You must understand that we were chosen amid a wave of outrage.

The Brazilian population was outraged by the situation in the country, which was going through a serious crisis, political corruption leading to corruption, political parties ceasing to expressly represent the society, the economic situation resulting from the incompetence of a country. management and corruption … Bolsonaro was elected in this context. The president is a sincere person, who has a clear vision of what he considers to be fair to Brazil. All his life he has never hidden it. Bolsonaro does not have a mask like many other politicians can have. And our government was not a clbadic coalition government. The president elected his ministers with technical criteria, chose reservists, and left Congress free to maneuver, which had never been so free to discuss issues as we see them now. There is no one buying MPs, no one is lobbying the parties. They had a lot of freedom. It may even seem like a confrontation, a conflict, but it is not. That's the style of Bolsonaro government.

Strong of his experience gained in a mission of peace in Angola, as a military attache at the Brazilian Embbady in Caracas, at the head of a brigade in the Amazon, at the head of the military command of the South and under the influence of the military club of Mourão. internal struggles appeased and friction with China; This helped prevent Brazil from supporting American plans for military intervention in Venezuela and ending a conflict with Arab countries in the Middle East over Bolsonaro's fanaticism with Israel. And although the president warned of the risks for Argentina if Mauricio Macri was not re-elected, Mr Mourão said the winner of the upcoming elections will win the bilateral relationship.

Moreover, in these days when Moro's mobile phone hacking scandal – which he fully endorses – has magnified, his only concern is that no strange phone gets into his office, too, before the interview with
THE NATIONall appliances had to be stored in a drawer outside their closets.

-Bolsonaro has entered a constant struggle with Congress, via Twitter, calling lawmakers "old politics". He does not seem very interested in working with Congress, but getting rid of him …

-The President has never suggested that. He has always made clear his strong commitment to the democratic system. Where the Congress is maniatado, gagged, it is in Venezuela. This does not happen here. At no time was it said to close Congress, extinguish parties, touch on these issues. But the president is a politician with 30 years of experience, he knows the meanders of Congress, he has not yet entered politics, he understands the type of dialogue to be conducted.

– You said that Moro was "indispensable to the success of the government". However, his figure was exhausted by the revelation of the so-called conversations he had had with prosecutors when he was judge of Lava Jato and also because his biggest initiative so far, the anti-corruption package and anti-corruption, is blocked in Congress. And the government supported him, but up to now, there was no response to the content of the conversations revealed by
L & # 39; interception, which would show that he acted partially. Is it still indispensable or weakened?

-In Brazil, several criminal organizations seized the state and, thanks to the work of the Lava Jato working group and Judge Moro, these people were brought to justice. The Brazilian judicial process is a slow and lengthy process. In itself, Moro would not have had the power to execute the sentences of people already convicted; there were second and third instance judges who also did their work. The entire judicial process has been duly respected. The fragmented disclosure of certain messages that were exchanged between him and the prosecutors was a crime. That's my vision and that of most Brazilians, as the surveys show. This did not affect his image. I think Moro is one of the main figures of the government because he is responsible for a very sensitive area that is public security. Its package of measures against crime and corruption is progressing little by little, as well as the pension and tax reform, which has already begun to be discussed. Congress has its times.

– What opinion deserves the operation against the alleged hackers who allegedly invaded the cell phones of Moro and other authorities, including the president?

-We have to wait. Four people were arrested and made statements. The data is crossed. But we have more than a thousand people, including several public authorities, alleged to have been hacked by these criminals.

However, the content of the alleged messages and prosecutors of Moro was not taken into account. Do you think it was partial when judging cases of Lava Jato?

-No way. Moro acted within the framework of the legality of justice. It must be questioned to benefit Lula. It is shameful for Brazil that a former prisoner is jailed for diverting public resources for his own benefit and that of his family. Lula was tried and sentenced in first, second and third instance. If Moro had been biased in Lula's judgment, in the second case, the sentence had already been reversed.

– The Brazilian economy is still growing today. What can happen to the government if the economic outlook does not improve in the coming months?

-Brazil will grow. We badume an economy in one of the worst times. We are in the sixth year of a huge fiscal crisis, with the government in red, with a lack of investment because there is no confidence in the Brazilian economy and, in At the same time, we have a productivity problem that weighs heavily on anyone who wants to invest. and produce The government first chose to face the pension reform, to put in place a medium-term fiscal solution that gives investors confidence. We have already found that with the partial approval of the reform, the agencies were improving our rating. We will continue tax reform by taking measures to increase consumption, reduce the price of gasoline and have cheaper energy. These are measures that seek to increase the productivity of the country. We may reach the end of the year with an expansion of 1% to 1.1% and by 2020 we will have better growth conditions. Our goal is to reach 2022 with a zero budget deficit and with these reforms duly implemented.

One of the big letters for the victory of his formula was the commitment in the fight against corruption. But today, there is no clear interest in investigating allegations against one of President's children, Senator Flavio Bolsonaro. How do you think this case has an impact on the government?

-When he was in Davos, at the beginning of this crisis, the president specified that if one of his children committed a crime, he should be brought to justice. It's a process that is in the hands of the Rio Justice and it's the state's public prosecutor who has to move the case forward. If the evidence is substantial at that time, the judge will make a decision and Flavio Bolsonaro will have to answer if he has made a mistake.

-Outside, the impression is that he is trying to hide under the rug any complaint that affects the government …

-It's not like that. What are the complaints? Flavio Bolsonaro does not belong to the government, it belongs to the legislature. Your problem is the last name.

-You stressed that regardless of the winner of the elections in Argentina, the relationship with Brazil will maintain a positive link. But what are the specific aspects in which there can be changes if the formula Alberto Fernández-Cristina Kirchner triumphs?

– I can not say it because, until now, I have not seen the governmental program of this formula, which relies on the ideas of previous periods, when the former President Kirchner and her husband headed Argentina. Although our relations must be from one state to another, the Brazilian people, and in particular our government, want liberalism and the Conservative program to progress among our Mercosur neighbors, especially in Argentina. But the destiny of Argentina is that of the Argentineans. We hardly see with hope because no matter who is chosen, we must have a positive relationship.

– Regarding the crisis in Venezuela, does the Brazilian army continue to contact the Venezuelan army to try to find a solution?

-I have no knowledge of these contacts, which would in any case be limited to the Ministry of Defense. I do not receive anything. What I see about the crisis in Venezuela is that as long as the outside actors, Cuba and Russia, do not understand the situation going on there, let the Venezuelans in search of a solution to their problems, we will take a little time to arrive. to a result. Now, in conversations in Barbados, we see again that Nicolás Maduro arrives and asks to lift the sanctions to start negotiating. There is a clearly dilatory process, as it has already happened. Meanwhile, the country is in an increasingly complicated situation, with a huge economic meltdown. This worries all Latin America, because we do not want it to end with a bloodbath.

IN ADDITION