“If a woman is dedicated to science, many still think it’s because she’s mad”: reflections of a scientist who fights for equality

A few years ago, as part of the TEDx Río de la Plata discussion cycle, a scientist took the stage. His name was -es- Nadia chiaramoni. The first thing he said was a personal anecdote. He said like this, “I recently had a date. It was horrible. Things started out more or less like this: he asked me what I had done. I am CONICET researcherI am a scientist and I am currently working on the study and development of liposomal formulations that encapsulate mucolytics for the treatment of chronic and acute lung diseases… He never called me back ”.

The story of course had a didactic purpose: to explain how strange it is for many people to meet a female scientist. It doesn’t end there, but throughout the 12-minute conversation he walks through the history of many fundamental – and perhaps unrecognized – women in global science. He mentions Marie Curie (twice Nobel Prize winner), his daughter Irene Curie (former Nobel Prize winner), Mileva Maric (mathematician -and wife of Albert Einstein-), Elvira Rawson (one of the first Argentinian doctors) , Rosalind Franklin (fundamental in the discovery of the structure of DNA), among others.

The conference accumulates more than thirty thousand views and it is ideal to see it again on a day like today, because Every February 11, the International Day of Women and Girls in Science has been celebrated since 2015. The date was institutionalized by UNESCO to promote the inclusion of women in science and to help make visible their often unknown contributions.

Exactly about it, Infobae He spoke with Nadia Chiaramoni to learn about the situation of Argentine scientists. Nadia was received on December 19, 2001 (“when De la Rúa was getting on the helicopter, so it was difficult for me to find a job,” she says). At the time, he got a scholarship to work abroad, at San Pablo University, and went to Brazil. Back home, he applied for a CONICET scholarship and began his doctorate at the University of Quilmes, still specializing in liposomes, as he told the man during that failed appointment.

-What does it mean that there is a women’s day in science: what is it recognized or not yet?

-It shouldn’t be necessary for the truth to exist someday, but at this point I see it as a good thing. The other day we were talking with a scientist friend about the quota of women in public institutions. And we said: having a quota is good, but it shows that there is real inequality. Ideally, there is no need for a quota. So at this point, like I said, I’m celebrating it. But later I wish I could celebrate it without pretending that there are more women scientists. And that girls don’t feel dumber than boys, or that they aren’t that good in some science.

-Does education or society make girls believe that they are less capable than boys in certain areas?

-There are several studies that show that until a few years ago, After a certain age, girls start to feel that they are not ready for mathematics, physics or these disciplines. And then the boys start to be better than the girls. I read this very recently, because I was talking about Sally Ride, an astronaut who was a physicist who was the first American woman to go into space. And it was a mine that also fought a lot for gender equality. And she had published a note in Science Magazine in which she said that at a table a scientist said girls had lower grades in math and physics than boys, and said – this man – that it had to be something genetic, that it couldn’t be otherwise. He was basically saying that genetically women are not as prepared for these disciplines as men. And Sally Ride said she couldn’t believe we took those kinds of opinions naturally.

– Are there still speeches like that?

-Of course. A few years ago a friend of mine, Valeria Edelstein, talked about a Barbie doll that was for sale and said two or three sentences. One of those sentences was: “Math is difficult”. And if you give that to a three or four year old girl, she’ll grow up believing it. This is why today is the day of women but also of the girl in science. It’s to let them know they can. That’s why it was institutionalized. If you ask two or three little kids to draw a person who works in science, they will surely make you Einstein, or someone like Dexter’s Lab, but they won’t make you a woman. And that must also change.

-In your presentation you also talk about the weight of the brains of women and men and the misconception that this has to do with intelligence.

-Exactly. Female brain weight is lighter while female overall height is lighter. But the weight of the brain is proven to have nothing to do with intelligence.

-What stopped you from thinking that science was not for you?

-I think my mother, because she always raised me very independently. In his own way, but very independent, I never thought there was nothing he could do. Anyway, there are certain micromachisms that are naturalized, beyond being brought up by the most independent person in the world.

-For example?

-An example: in a subject of the faculty there was a teacher who touched every woman’s neck, and we all just shrugged our shoulders. That was many years ago, but back then nobody ever thought of telling the guy it was wrong. We have all endured it. We only giggled nervously, but no one told him to stop there. And that was frankly wrong.

-What is the situation of women scientists in Argentina today?

-He is much better than before. As regards the participation of women, Latin America is the most advanced. This is the place where there are more women in science projects. Now alright, major projects still need to close the gap. Or in hierarchical positions. Nevertheless, in recent years there has been a breakthrough that is important to mention, namely that the president of CONICET is a woman, Ana Franchi, and it is a person who created the Argentine Network of Science and of technology. In other words, she is a woman who fights for equality, and that seems very important to me.

-In your TEDx talk, you start by recounting a date with a man who is scared when you tell him what you are doing. What is the reaction of men in general when they meet a female scientist?

-If I had to give the lecture again today -which dates from 2017- I could do the intro in a different way. There are some men who tell you: “stop, don’t tell me”; and there are others who care about you and want you to tell them more about it. There is everything. Now … what happens to us when we have these professions is that they probably think you are crazy or fucked up. It’s like that, If a woman is dedicated to science, many still think it is because she is crazy.

-Is it different for men?

-Of course. If you are leading a group, surely you have a bad temper. While a guy runs a band, he’s a genius. A mine happens because she’s crazy or she’s a slut, like I said, and if a man comes it’s because he deserves it. This difference, this prejudice, still exists. And that’s, I think, the first thing that needs to change.

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