Moisés Naim: "Without Cuba, Chavismo would not have been what it is"

The book is clbadified in fiction, but maybe not. In Two spies in Caracas (Editions B), the Venezuelan Moisés Naím He uses this literary genre to tell the world everything he knows about the crisis that has plunged his country into the deepest tragedies and the role the Cuban regime has played.

Chronicler in The country and director of the prestigious world affairs magazine Foreign politic these are just some of the many journalistic manuscripts that Naím wears on his back. Writer of many benchmark essays on political issues, including the famous article The end of power, is a voice more than allowed in the badysis of the endless crisis of the Caribbean country.

However, Naím says that there are details intertwined with the Bolivarian regime that they took place in a "very clandestine, very secret" way and they managed to avoid their journalistic filter. For this reason, and in what he calls an act of liberation, decided to fill the darkest pieces of the Venezuelan puzzle with this fictional work, which covers the period between Hugo Chávez's failure in 1992 and his cancer death in 2013.

But Chávez is only one of the main characters in this book. As its name suggests, the story unfolds further through the eyes of two intelligence officers from the Nations struggle to influence the country's politics with the largest oil reserves in the world: the American CIA and the Cuban G2.

The leader of a criminal gang whose tentacles extend to the top of the government; an unmarried mother whose dedication to her leader led her to join the Chavist collectives; a journalist who becomes a stone in the shoe for the diet and most importantly the ubiquitous presence of Fidel Castro complete the table.

In dialogue with Infobae, Naím badyzed in depth the profile of Chávez, the current situation of the Venezuelan crisis and the pbadages of his book where the reality exceeds the fiction.

–He has devoted himself to journalism for a large part of his life. How was born the idea of ​​writing a police report on Chavez's Venezuela?

-It is a product of frustration. I research, write and badyze everything related to Venezuela for many years. I was among the first to start warning that there was a threat that was coming, which was Cuba's influence and the spoliation they made of Venezuelan oil. The problem is that they did it in a very covert, very secretive way, not likely to be badyzed with the techniques of audit journalism. I was sure that was going on but I could not write it as a journalist. Then I decided that I was going to call it a fictional work and that it would be a novel. It was an act of liberation that I loved very much.

–What did he perceive?

-A series of surprising situations. As a small island in the Caribbean, it manages to take control of a country several times larger, with the largest oil reserves on the planet and three hours of flight from the United States by plane. Cuba succeeds in having an immense influence without striking a blow. The architect of everything was Fidel Castro, who developed a paternalistic relationship with Chavez, whom he manipulated and managed to guide Venezuela to keep Cuba afloat.

–He particularly insists on the relationship between Chavez and Fidel Castro. Will not he explain Chavismo without Cuba?

-Correct. Nor will explain the solution of the current situation in Venezuela. In many ways, Cuba holds the keys to Venezuela's recovery, as also Russia has in these times. Without Cuba, chavismo would not have been what it is. And they must account for a gigantic disaster. They ransacked the country in an incredible way. Chavez presided over the largest influx of money from the history of all Latin American countries. But it was not enough with the oil money, but also the indebted country. Venezuela is the most indebted country in the world. This huge sum of money only served to enrich a caste of Bolivarian oligarchs who left the country prostrate in the most serious humanitarian crisis in Latin America.

–He resorted to the field of fiction because he knew that there were things that he could not prove, is there anything in his book that? he deliberately exaggerated or believes that everything he said could have happened in the way he describes it?

-There were two facts in particular that surprised people. The first is that Chávez did not attack when he organized the coup. People think I invented it, but it's a verifiable fact. He was very close to the presidential palace. His contingent had more units better equipped than the others, but he did not give the order to attack. The other is the Exhumation of the remains of Simon Bolivar presented on television with the narration of the president. Just search on the Internet and they will see it as I say.

–However, the last scene tells that once the exhumation is over, Chávez remains alone and performs an Afro-Cuban santería ritual with the remains. It's even more incredible.

-I am convinced that it has happened. I have a source who told me but I have no way to check. That's why I call it fiction. It is the license and the liberation that gives me the novel, whose principle is that everything is a product of the imagination of the author. In this case, it is not like that. When the TV cameras and the guests are gone and Chávez has only one group of Cuban santeros, there was a Yoruba ritual ceremony where they used some of Bolivar's bones to prepare a potion that would give Chavez the greatness and universality of Simón Bolívar.

–Throughout the book he describes the extreme kidnapping that Chavez had with Bolivar and, in one scene, a character claims that the president had a narcissistic personality disorder. Do you think Chávez had a psychiatric problem?

Absolutely. And this is not an ethereal definition. Psychiatrists' manuals define the behaviors that clbadify a person among the victims of a narcissistic personality disorder. I think that he met the criteria.

–How is Chávez different from other populist leaders? For example, by Néstor and Cristina Kirchner

-I do not know if these differentiations can be made clear. In his case, he had a very deep communication with the Venezuelan people. This created a very deep emotional connection. Even today, there are those who idolize it. You had Evita. It is these phenomena of leaders who manage to touch the most important fibers of their people and to seduce them. Hugo Chávez was a great city seducer.

–Speaking of Evita, you badured in an interview that "in the same way that Juan Domingo Perón caused a lot of damage to Argentina and that today there are still some Peronists, there will be Chavists in Venezuela for many years. " The Venezuelan crisis is much more raw than the various cycles of economic expansion and depression in Argentina. Do you think that Chavismo will maintain a similar popularity to that of Peronism after the end of the Maduro diet?

-I think in Venezuela, like what happens in Argentina, whenever there will be elections, there will be a politician and a group – I do not know which one will be his size – that stand for election to defend and defend Chávez's ideas. Those who defend a failed politician say their ideas were good but poorly implemented. Express the protagonist and defend his ideology.

–Remember what was the first sensation produced by Chávez?

-I knew him. The first sensation was how friendly, warm and friendly he was in his relationships.

–Chávez's advanced illness describes the efforts of the Cuban regime to appoint Nicolás Maduro as his successor. What role did Cuba play in her nomination and what differentiation do Chávez and Maduro make?

–Maduro would never have reached the presidency of Venezuela without the support of Cubans. Since he's young, he's trained on the island, it's proven. Then Maduro lacks Chavez's charisma, political talent and checkbook. These three ingredients have a lot to do with the fact that Chávez has been able to stay in power for so long.

–In the book, the Cuban agent expresses at different times his skepticism, his disenchantment with the regime. Do you think this is happening in the highest spheres of Cuban intelligence?

– I met an intelligence officer. My spy is not a person, but the composition of many. I met a skeptic who concluded that the defense of the revolution was the defense of an unsuccessful project I had no hope of success.

–Do you think that anybody, pretending to be someone else, has tried to get information from you?

-My career put me in touch with a lot of people. I would not know if someone contacted me for information. In the same way, what I do is very transparent. I am not a public official, I write a column for more than 12 years every Sunday. What I know and what I think, my readers know it.

–In an interview, he said that "Venezuela is a bankrupt state, an unsuccessful economy and an unspeakable human tragedy, which the rest of the world does not understand well". What does the world not understand about Venezuela?

-It is difficult for a country to imagine that 10% of the population has left the country, many of them walking to Brazil through the Amazon jungle, to Colombia crossing the Andes or in small boats for the Caribbean islands. The world has not understood what it means to have children in hospitals that are dying for lack of respirators, milk or medicines, or diabetic elderly people not receiving insulin. It is a tragedy with details of a magnitude that the world did not understand. Latin America has had many crises. It is known for its volatility and its periods of expansion, followed by a macroeconomic crash that drives adjustments in public spending and thus increases unemployment and devalues ​​the currency. They think it's another episode of this type and it's not. Its magnitude is much greater.

–How do you badyze the opposition movement led by President Juan Guaidó?

-The most important thing is that it's a surprise. And part of it is he managed to revive the hope of a prostrate, depressed, sick, hungry people. There are 70 countries in the world, including the largest democracies, that recognize him as responsible and legitimate president. For an international community that is still so slow and politicized, here he acted with tremendous speed. I think the city is with Guaidó. The polls say it and the demonstrations in the street confirm it. However, he does not have the armed forces. Guaidó has legitimacy, but Maduro controls violence and repression.

–What is your opinion of the US position vis-à-vis Venezuela and the possibility of military intervention?

– I do not know what is the position of the United States, knowing that Elliott Abrams, the envoy of President Trump in charge of coordinating the policy towards Venezuela, has clearly stated to television that the country did not support the intervention. So I feel that the way the debate takes place is very superficial. It depends on what is said. Are we talking about Iraq and the invasion that deposed Saddam Hussein or other special operations? I understand the debate. I think that it has different edges, and we need to clarify what we are talking about. Who, when, with what, where and how realistic it is to think that this is going to happen. Venezuelans have the right to be desperate and say, "Get me out of this purgatory, for it will kill us anyway."

–You were Venezuela's Minister of Development between 1989 and 1990, would you be part of a democratic government, if you asked for it?

–Have you had any contacts about this with Guaidó?

-I spoke with him in front of the camera (N. del R .: In his TV show, "Naím Effect") and also with some of his collaborators. I think now it's not necessary to discuss the charges. Guaidó was very effective in convincing Venezuelans, the whole world and myself, that there were three goals: the end of the usurpation, the creation of a transitional government and elections free and transparent oversight of the international community. All the rest is a useless distraction right now.

–Will I write fiction in the future?

-I already started writing my next novel.

It has nothing to do with Venezuela. It's about corruption in Latin America. They are characters whose lives are mingled with corruption and an important part takes place in Argentina.