Sergio Moro: "Judges must do their job without worrying about electoral issues"

BRASILIA.- As exjuez and key protagonist of
the Lava Jato operation,
Sergio Moro dared to condemn for corruption and send to prison the popular Brazilian President Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva. Today, as Minister of Justice and Public Safety of the new President

Jair Bolsonaro

, Moro arrives again in Buenos Aires in the middle of the oral trial of Cristina Kirchner, candidate to the vice-presidency. And although he prefers not to mention specifically the case that keeps the Argentinean policy in suspense, he does not hesitate to make recommendations to the judges of our country.

"Judges must do their job without worrying about electoral issues, and if someone breaks the law, he or she must suffer the consequences, it is a" rule of law, "he said.
THE NATION in an exclusive interview in his office in the Brazilian capital. "This is not simple when we see the corruption systems so widespread in Latin America, where problems of impunity and lack of efficiency in the impartial application of the law are present, but these are challenges we face if we want more mature democracies, "he explained. .

The 46-year-old junior, including 22 as a federal magistrate, admitted that he did not have much knowledge of the proceedings against him.

Cristina Kirchner

and that it would be unwise to talk about it. "What I can say, according to the Brazilian experience, is that it is important to separate politics and justice, so that justice continues on the right path, just respect the law." If justice reflects on the political consequences of one way or another, any option to be taken will have political effects, both in action and in omission, "said Moro, who was criticized at the end of last year when he accepted the offer of the far right Bolsonaro to join his government.

In Buenos Aires, he will participate in a meeting of the holders of justice and public security of Mercosur and, with his Argentinian counterparts Patricia Bullrich (Security) and Germán Garavano (Justice), will sign an agreement to strengthen the security at the same time. 39 sporting events, with a view to: Copa America will be held in Brazil in June and July.

– It is possible that large plots of corruption were mounted in a state without the approval of the government?

– In the case of Lula, it was proved that he was the final beneficiary of the criminal scheme in force in Petrobras. there was a capture of a state-owned company in favor of private interests, directors of the company, political agents and the exmandatario himself. Lula was not only sentenced by me, but also in the following two cases, and he was also sentenced in another trial. It's a sad situation, no one wants to see a former president tried and sentenced, but the law is foremost. It is difficult to give an opinion on Argentina and on the former president Kirchner, I only know the subject by the press.

After the revelations of Lava Jato, can we say that there is a similar corruption dynamics in most Latin American countries?

-It exists in several countries of Latin America a problem of integrity on the part of its governors. What has been verified in the case of Brazil, it is this phenomenon called "capture of the state", in which the governments appropriated the public machine to defend special interests or their own interests private sector, either through illegal campaign financing or through enrichment. Illegal The important thing is what is done once discovered. the wrong answer is to sweep the dirt under the carpet and continue as if nothing had happened, as this dirt tends to reappear and increase. In this respect, Brazil has its merits because it acted: many people were prosecuted, several were tried and sentenced. This advances the rule of law.

-As in Brazil, Argentina, public works have been stopped. What would you recommend to local authorities so that investigations do not affect the economy?

– It is not clear whether there is a correlation between the investigations and the economic problems that Brazil has suffered: badysts point out that there is also a problem of increasing the budget deficit and loss of confidence in the economy. 'economy. We must consider giving companies involved in crime a second chance as long as they admit their crimes, collaborate with the justice system, abandon these practices and, in addition, compensate the public funds for the damages suffered. In Brazil, lenient agreements have been signed with Odebrecht, the OAS and Camargo Corrêa, among others. You can not ignore the violation of the law and the practice of bribery, no matter who is involved. Otherwise, it contributes more and more to the degradation of the environment and the greater economic losses. Disseminated corruption corrodes the productivity of the economy.

– In a week, there will be two years from the publication of information from Odebrecht, but the evidence has not been communicated to the Argentine justice. Why did not he progress?

-I am not directly responsible for this cooperation, which has always been the primary responsibility of the federal public prosecutor. During investigations
It was discovered that some businessmen bribed foreign officials in Lava Jato and we adopted a general policy of cooperation to share these tests. But the evidence we receive from collaborators / repentants as a result of an award agreement can only be shared with the commitment of the country receiving them not to use them against those who provided them. That was the case with Odebrecht. Some countries have accepted this condition willingly, like Peru. As far as I know, in the case of Argentina, the acceptance of these conditions was problematic: the law did not allow it. In cases of international judicial cooperation, these conditions are often met. For example, Switzerland cooperates by providing evidence, but it does not allow them to be used to prosecute tax exempts. If there were no changes in Argentine law, it was a problem more Argentine than Brazilian. Nothing prevents Argentina from developing its own tests and advancing its processes unconditionally. You must make a choice: either to receive the evidence and to prosecute some of the people involved, or not to obtain it and not be able to prosecute anyone unless they conduct their own investigations. It's a very pragmatic choice that fits every country. Here he was chosen to sign winning reward agreements with minor criminals to reach the older ones.

– Not to badume rightly an anti-crime package that remains blocked in Congress, criticized by the so-called "carte blanche" of security agents who kill in self-defense in particular situations. What would be the answer to those who say that this gives the police the license to kill?

-It is ambiguous: since we have a government with a more severe public safety discourse, we try to put these proposals in a derogatory scenario. But the penal codes of Portugal and Germany contain almost identical proposals. Basically, it is not a license to kill: it seeks to understand that if an agent reacts to an unjust aggression, in self-defense, he may eventually exceed his answer and need not be considered a murderer, a criminal; the agents are not robots.

-In Rio de Janeiro, the number of violent deaths has decreased but has increased due to the actions of the police. Is there a correlation?

-No, there is not any. These deaths due to police actions are a negative fact that must be diminished. The ministry does not aim for a confrontational strategy: it's a bad way because it ends up denouncing both the police, the innocent and the criminals themselves, who must be jailed and not killed. It is difficult to determine the exact causes of the reduction in the number of violent deaths, as there are several. For example, the dome of the main Brazilian criminal organization, the CCP (Primeiro Comando da Capital), has been transferred to maximum security prisons to isolate it. This weakened the CCP and surely led its members to freedom to commit fewer crimes. But we still have too many violent crimes in Brazil.

-Bolsonaro promotes a policy of flexibilization of firearms. For you, is it positive to have more weapons in the streets?

– It was a promise of the president in the election campaign and was launched mainly by the presidency. It should be noted that, despite the flexibility, there are still many control mechanisms; It's not that anyone can buy or carry weapons. We must prevent them from falling into the wrong hands. The president made it clear that it was not a public security policy, but to serve a part of the population who believes in the right to have arms. I gave my personal opinion to the president of the republic.