"Surely", USA will try to influence the elections in Argentina

Glenn Greenwald is actually one of the most heard and respected voices of world journalism. In 2013, he was known for winning the Pullitzer Award through his publications with the US National Security Agency (NSA) contractor. Edward Snowden. From that moment, his figure continues to grow and it is now, in 2019, that he gives another great journalistic blow by revealing the wiretaps between prosecutors and the judge of the case Lava Jato, Sergio Moro. This new journalistic investigation called #Vazajato has all Brazil in a state of permanent shock, as it constantly carries the figure of Moro, perhaps the most respected man in Brazil until Glenn begins to publish with his private conversations about Telegram the place "L & # 39; interception."

But the fame that forges his research #vazajato he places it more and more in the center of all eyes, and Glenn does not hesitate to take clear positions, facing the Rio de Janeiro militia, the evangelical conservatives, and even Steve Bannon, The New York Times and others on the road are trying to intimidate or limit what they think is most important and for which they have been fighting for more than a decade: freedom of expression and the democratization of journalism .

Freedom of expression and the struggle for independent journalism are topics for which he has already won awards, including the Profile Award. In an interview with Discoverhe did not even dodge questions about the political situation in Argentina.

-How do you evaluate the presence of the Internet in terms of democratization of voices in journalism?

It is important to remember that when creating the Internet or at least when it became popular in society, people were enthusiastic because the main promise was that the Internet would eliminate the need for communicate only through major media controlled by large companies. with the citizens and it would be much easier to spread other ideas, by other communicators, without necessarily having a team too big, too expensive, and I think that this finally happens.

In the United States and Europe, it is much easier to be financed, even as an independent media outlet. So, there are many more independent vehicles here than here in Brazil, where unfortunately Balloon, Veja and Estadão They still have a lot of power. But I think everything changes. Here, the alternative media have managed to create a very strong audience, they have a significant impact. So now, when we have a political protest, we do not only see "a person" that Globo wants to show by starting a riot, using violence, to discredit the protest.

My point of view changed a lot during the Dilma dismissal debate when I was surprised to see traditional media with a near-plurality of opinions, almost without dissent. Dissent was almost completely forbidden; there was unanimous support for the dismissal of Dilma. And in fact, it was an important debate for democracy, whether or not an elected president was removed.

The democratic process was going on outside, but the Brazilian media did not allow debate. It was a good reason to create Interception in Brazil.

It has been reported that Steve Bannon, who advised Bolsonaro during the 2018 campaign, reportedly used illegal data manipulation to create fake news and campaign strategies for right-wing candidates and politicians. far right. Given the danger that these people see the return of Cristina Kirchner to the government, do you think that Bannon will act in these elections in Argentina?

I think that Bannon is very explicit about this intention. In fact, his protocol is very dangerous. Trump used this strategy during the campaign and probably won for it, but after his victory, he did not want to work with Steve Bannon because his daughter … her husband, who has a lot of influence on the government, did not like Bannon. and forced him to go out.

I think it's a very good thing because if Trump followed the strategy of Steve Bannonhe would probably have a much stronger stance because Steve Bannon's strategy is: very nationalistic, he still talks like Trump: "Oh, let's make America big again and let's put the US First against all other countries ". And Jair Bolsonaro obviously copied that by saying "Brazil above all else." It's the same thing. And at the same time, say that our country is the first, that all other countries are inferior or come later, promising to improve the lives of workers against establishment, against the elite.

It is this ideology that pollutes, hurts and wounds millions of people in many countries. The neoliberalism that unfortunately prevailed here in Brazil, the United States, the United Kingdom and Argentina creates this space for this narrative: all the sufferings of your life are caused by the political elite, the establishment, the political system. Then, the only solution "is to close our country to immigrants, to give priority to our country and to declare war on the globalists, the workers and the poor".

Obviously, there are very strong links between the Trump family and the Bolsonaro family … It's exactly … And that will also happen in Argentina.

In Argentina, the right has been lost, because it is much easier to grow when power is exhausted than when you are in power. We see it very well now with the Bolsonaro moment. When he was running out of energy, it was very easy to unite hatred against the PT, "everyone hates Lula", "he hates the PT", "out, Dilma", c & # 39; was very easy.

But now that they have the power, what's going on? There is a civil war between all the factions who hate each other more than the left.

This [estrategia de Bannon] it's a strategy not to govern, but to win elections, and they will surely try to do it in Argentina to win these elections, But I think the problem is that the right is already in Argentina and people have already seen what they can do. It is very difficult to campaign on the basis of promises that you will not hold.

– Mauricio Macri's right-wing government has made several media appearances and has ordered several dissident journalists discussing the official speech to be fired. Journalists who have an editorial line similar to The Intercept. What is your thinking about this?

I think we see this a bit here in Brazil, with several journalists dismissed, under pressure for criticizing the Bolsonaro government and that will certainly continue. It's an authoritarian mentality that punishes critics. As a result, the first reaction of Sergio Moro and Bolsonaro to our report Vaza Jato went threaten us with arrest, investigations. First, they tried to do it against me. Now they are trying to do it against my husband and they still threaten to stop me. This is exactly what authoritarians around the world think.

And in Argentina it was very severe. After 4 yearsMany journalists have suffered and I am convinced that this will happen in Brazil.

-You denounced the fact that Argentina and Brazil were spied by the NSA of the United States. Similar to the judicial persecutions taking place in Argentina, Lava Jato in Brazil ended up demonizing the Workers Party. Do you think that behind all this lies the hand of the United States?

First of all, as a more or less absolute rule, I can not discuss or talk more about the content of the file that we have not yet informed or communicated because it is often not responsible. We can make mistakes very easily if we are talking about content that has not yet followed the journalistic and editorial process.

But I will say this: I interviewed former Dilma president in 2016, the first interview after the House voted in favor of her political trial. I asked him exactly what he thought was the United States planning the recall. She said that she did not believe it, she thought that the main cause was national, that they were "attracted" by the national enemies of the Workers Party.

But Nothing happens in a country like Brazil in this region without at least the knowledge and approval of the United States. For example, the 1964 coup was built, it was designed, it was implemented by the United States.

I think if the United States UU. they did not conduct the political trial of Dilma, surely they were aware, approved and approved for the execution. We were able to reveal at that time, for example, that the leaders of the PSDB Senate were going to the United States during the vote, obviously to discuss it.

So, it's the same with Lava Jato. I do not think the United States has been a leader in the Lava Jato process, but he was definitely involved. Obviously, we know, as you said, that They were very interested in Petrobras. They have negotiated a lot with the prosecutors of Deltan Dallagnol and Lava Jato on how they could receive billions of dollars from Odebrecht, Petrobras, the money of the Brazilian people. So I think the United States is involved in almost everything important here in Brazil.