The crossing under tension of Juan Grabois and Ernesto Tenembaum due to the crisis in Venezuela – 25/01/2019

Friday, Juan Grabois and Ernesto Tenembaum organized a long and intense radio debate focused on the social and political crisis that Venezuela is going through.

While the social leader avoided commenting on Nicolás Maduro's government for "not knowing the question in depth", he denounced a "coup d'etat" promoted by the United States and compared the situation to that of other Latin American countries that "do not know the question in depth", he denounced a "coup d'etat" promoted by the United States and compared the situation to that of other countries of Latin America that "do not are not part of the agenda, "asked the reporter not to repudiate the human rights violations of the Chavez regime.

The mano a mano, which lasted more than half an hour on Radio Con Vos, began with Tenembaum who asked the leader of Front Patria Grande to give his point of view on the issue.

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Juan Grabois (JG): "My position is similar to that of Uruguay and Mexico No matter what you think of the Maduro government, it is a serious mistake and a very dangerous antecedent to recognize a de facto government and especially this chance to celebrate methods of social protest, which are evaluated with a double stick. That is, they are good in Venezuela but in Argentina.

I have seen Argentine media tired of criticizing the peaceful mobilizations that we, social movements, are realizing here to celebrate the use of Molotov badtails, balaclavas, shields, sticks, looting, pickets … Then, one wonders what is the criterion with which the application of violence is accepted as part of the processes of change.

Of course, my position is diametrically opposed to that badumed (Mauricio) Macri. Even all countries did not accept the self-proclamation of the person who declared himself president without any legal basis. This generates a dangerous antecedent. "

Ernesto Tenembaum (ET): And what do you think of Maduro?

JG: "What I think of Maduro is an absolutely secondary question because I can not say anything. I do not know the subject in depth. Yes, I see that in Venezuela there is a huge crisis that takes several years. And this is resolved by the dialogue ".

AND: "It does not seem to me neutral or logical that you have such a clear opinion about what Juan (Guaidó) owns and has no information about Maduro." Reports on the most balanced and prestigious human rights organizations in the world. They talk about electric elements, torture, persecution of opponents, shooting protesters, imprisoning politicians and thousands of exiles, and there are no legitimate elections either.

Since the 80s, I have not seen a dictatorship conform to such a clbadic aspect. Of course, this exit with (Donald) Trump and (Jair) Bolsonaro behind is highly questionable. But when I ask you what you think of Maduro You can not tell me that you are not informed"

JG: "You make a description to discredit my opinion." This description is very similar to what could be done in Honduras, a country that is not on the agenda because it does not have the main oil reserve in Latin America. That Trump is worried about Venezuela's democracy seems strange to me; the fear of capturing Venezuela's reserves seems more likely. And it worries me because I am Argentinian. Tolerate everything to Maduro, no; but neither to approve a military coup ".

AND: "But Juan, what is in Venezuela is not a military coup".

JG: "Many military coups were given without firing a bullet, they tried the military exit, they did not leave and now they have done something of a very damn antecedent." The characterization of the dictatorship that you do, the weight more or less heavy, applies to a lot of Latin American countries, I have never heard you talk about Honduran migrants. What is the name of the president of Honduras?"

AND: (…)

JG: "You do not know, I've never been to Venezuela, Honduras, yes, look at the bloodbath that there was, in Venezuela, they are promoting a civil war and it's much worse. "

AND: "You do not know with the pain with which I listen to you. It's enough to go out and ask their stories to Venezuelan guys who see you in any bar and I swear you'll start crying. "

JG: "I'm not saying that Venezuela is a paradise, it bothers me to put in prison Leopoldo López, my argument is that there is a subjective evaluation. Do you want me to tell you that Venezuela is a military dictatorship? I do not think about it I think it is a government that is absolutely disconnected and needs to put in place a much stronger dialogue structure. Everything is happening in the context of the ambitions of other countries involved in the economic blockade on Venezuela's natural resources; basically from the United States. Is it an invention of me? Does Trump care about human rights? "

AND: "But if you have a diet of hunger and repression for so many years, it's a dictatorship … you call it a blow."

JG: "No, I call a coup to proclaim a president and the United States recognize it in five minutes." The fact that this interference is not recognized does not want to see the reality, I'm talking about what I know. Afghanistan: I do not know of any government or opposition actors in Venezuela. Mature at least emerges from a process similar to a democratic process"

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AND: "No question".

JG: "When there will be a civil war, what will you say?"

AND: "It's that the result they're offering is also bad for me."

JG: "Look at the situation in Mexico, there has been no greater mbadacre of social leaders and civil society than in Mexico and Colombia, much more than in Venezuela." So follow an international agenda that takes into account a certain geopolitical position. You do not know who the president of Honduras is. Why do not you pay attention to that? It's a very bad argument that you use. "

AND: "Is your position taken to the extreme trying to justify violations of human rights? You speak of the steps as if you were (Patricia) Bullrich. And I have no problem, I started studying in Honduras. "

JG: "The political violence is never valid, we must always seek the way of the dialogue To denounce the violations of the human rights in Venezuela, you are there, there are many people who speak about it, it is is the hegemonic speech in the media and I think it's a barbaric thing, but I'm talking about something else, the discussion is between those who want a solution of dialogue and those who want a shot of d & # 39; 39; State promoted by the United States. "