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Nicaragua is experiencing a profound social and political crisis. Since April 18, the dead are already counted by the hundreds, the wounded by the thousands and demonstrations against President Ortega do not stop.
The country of Central America seems to be facing an inevitable confrontation when it has already encountered more than 100 days of protests following
What is Nicaragua's Future? What role will Daniel Ortega play in him? The Euronews special envoy to Managua, Oscar Valero, interviewed President Ortega at the presidential palace
– Oscar Valero, euronews: You've been all for the Nicaraguan people: a liberator, a leader of the mbades and a historical figure. Now this same city is going out on the street to ask him to leave. Why?
– Daniel Ortega, President of Nicaragua :: First … it's not everyone. A part of the population. Here we had an opposition all the time that clearly manifested itself even in the elections. We had elections in which we participated and we did not reach the majority because the opposition forces reached the majority … and all are united under the mandate of North American politics . These are therefore difficult elections, as North American politics attempts to unite the opposition and not allow the return of the National Sandinista Liberation, which was finally achieved in 2007.
E: But we are talking Among the demonstrations currently taking place in Nicaragua, a recent poll indicates that 79% of Nicaraguans want to see him leave. At least there is a reasonable doubt that the people of Nicaragua want you to stay in power.
– DO: But I think that there is a good part of the population, I can not give you the percentage data of the survey. . I do not know of a serious poll at this time
– E: It comes from the organization Ethics and Transparency
– DO: It's an organization known to be against the government, it's anti-government agencies funded by the United States.
– E: Do not you think that there is a clamor on the street, that you might be tempted to ask people … for example, by organizing an election?
. D.O .: The elections we had recently, we recently had elections. And what we have had now is an attempted coup d'etat. That's what we experienced, what people have suffered. And I want to clarify for the euronews audience, because I read it said "one hundred days, ninety days, 300 dead already", here in Nicaragua … well ..
E: The Nicaraguan Center for Human Rights says so, other organizations say 400.
– DO: These are figures that are not true. Real of these clashes that took place since April 18, it was already the violent confrontation between the opposition and the government, the police and the Sandinista population that killed 195 people. And we are talking about the police, the Sandinistas, the paramilitaries and the civilian population that has been hit by the barricades. Of course, if we add the average number of deaths that Nicaragua had before April 18, which is one of the lowest rates in the region, two deaths a day. Of course, if it adds two newspapers, we will have 180 more. What these human rights organizations do is to join them all: 180 plus 190, we would have what they say today
– E: As you manipulate the numbers.
– D.O .: Put everything together! How do you explain that in this period there are no deaths for common crimes!
E: That's not what they say. The organizations that talk about these dead do not say that there are no common crimes but that the dead by the demonstrations are between 300 and 400, which is a very high number.
– D.O .: They put everything together. Everyone who appears as dead is counted as dead in the protests.
E: So it's a war of numbers.
– D.O .: It is that Nicaragua since the triumph of Sandinism has undergone a war of numbers. Because we faced American politics, Nicaragua was targeted by …
– E: What I do not understand, it's … for example, you let in the Nicaraguan Rights Center from the man to tell the dead. Why now would they suddenly manipulate the data?
– D.O .: US-funded human rights centers. Precisely to manipulate numbers. Until December of last year …
– E: Excuse me, but I do not want to enter a numbers war because otherwise we will not agree, simply.
– DO: This information is very important. Since last December, here in Nicaragua, in addition to people killed for common crimes, we had 25 policemen and 25 volunteer policemen killed by armed gangs, 32 soldiers of the army; and more, 47 farmers. Armed gangs that these human rights organizations have defended as patriots, armed gangs who have been murdered and who defend them as patriots. And in the United States, they have their propaganda base in Miami, so it's not a new phenomenon, but it's now come from the countryside to the city.
– E: What I wonder is: do you have a responsibility? Country? Because no matter how many we deal with – which you manage and other international centers treat others – do you consider that you have the responsibility of not being able to ensure the safety of your citizens?
– DO: The truth is that we are facing a powerful enemy who intervened militarily in Nicaragua, which is the United States …
E: I find it interesting because you sometimes mentioned that these Protests are funded by the United States, but I have seen no evidence yet. Do you have proof?
– DO: Of course
– E: Why have not you shown them yet?
– DO: There are accounts, which the US agencies, through several North American organizations send these people … even said by them publicly, announced the amount of millions badigned to Nicaragua for "Democracy" they say, but that they deviate to destabilize the country and stimulate armed actions, they are groups that commit crimes. Since 2007, when we came to power, these groups organized themselves with funding and press propaganda, presenting them as patriots, the Miami press and human rights organizations. Whenever they fell in battle, these bands presented them as victims
– E: So, according to you, there are protests funded by the United States that have no connection with the United States. people
– DO: It has something to see. of the population that is affiliated with the opposition forces who are even in Parliament, which had an active part in the barricades.
– E: When you build the idea of these events organized by a terrorist organization. It is difficult to find a leader, there is no clear evidence of funding … this version does not fit too much.
– DO: If we proceeded to arrest the leaders, I can imagine the reaction that there would be. If with what we have done, capturing those who are directly involved in terrorist acts, those who participate … there are human rights organizations that speak for them, to defend them, to want to punish Nicaragua, and the United States Congress issues resolutions against Nicaragua. Imagine that we were stopping all the leadership that promoted all of this
– E: But not just the United States, the OAS, the World Bank, not just the United States who criticize what does their government
: The one who marks the wand is the United States, as always, the one who directs the torch in Latin America and the world is the United States, he has a lot of strength to do it
– E : With regard to this violence in the streets, because it has calmed down, but you never know when this can resurface, I would like you to talk about paramilitaries or parapolices because they have a role that is not very clear. Many testimonies speak of their collaboration with their security forces. And these are people who commit crimes … for example, Amnesty International speaks of "extrajudicial executions". What is your point of view?
– D.O .: Amnesty International did not submit a single test. What is public is how paramilitaries organized by the right have murdered in the barricades, filmed, tortured the citizens first because they are Sandinistas. They torture them, they burn them, then they dance around them, that is terrorism, terrorism. And they put them on the networks themselves. And Amnesty International does not say anything about it and the IACHR says nothing. When they take a policeman and burn him.
– E: There are many examples of these paramilitaries collaborating with their security forces, the BBC went to a Nicaraguan town and they said that they were collaborating with the police, without any [19659003] – DO: No, here we have what we call "volunteer" police
– E: No, but they are masked people, because the volunteer police are not masked.
– DO: The volunteer police officer in special operations is masked in normal times. There are even countries in Latin America where judges are masked so as not to kill them.
– E: So those policemen who defined themselves as paramilitaries were like volunteer policemen …
– DO: That's right. They are volunteer policemen
– E: At one point, you seemed open to talking with the opposition, how is the situation?
– D.O .: I called the dialogue, I took the initiative of peace and reconciliation. I call the dialogue. I say to the Episcopal Conference that they help to bring together those of us who are going to speak, who will help us to meet and moderate the dialogue. It has happened that those who sat down to speak did not sit down to talk, they sat down shouting that the government had to leave. This is not a dialogue. The mistake was made to transmit it on television
– E: Are you ready to talk to them without television?
– DO: You can try to create the conditions and lay the groundwork for the rules of what is a dialogue It was not possible to maintain a point of balance, which is the mediation of the Conference Episcopal. This was not possible and this weakened the dialogue.
– E: If you sit down again in the dialogue table, what are your red lines. Would I move away from power a red line something that I could not accept?
– DO: First to consolidate peace, we commit ourselves to do justice.
– E: If peace was consolidated, would you be ready to hold elections?
– DO: It is that we have here constitutional norms that establish electoral periods, ours ends in 2021, when the elections are held again in Nicaragua. In all peace processes that I have participated in Central America, it has never been considered that elections should be held. What was wanted were political space agreements for the participation of the opposition forces. As a first step to ensure peace, to change the balls by votes.
– E: Sorry to cross-examine you, but I'd like an answer. Do you consider in any case, at any time of the dialogue, your resignation or your early elections? Because the progress of the elections is also constitutional
– JO: In Central America, this did not happen, in Colombia whenever there is a peace process, the elections do not happen. did not take place, with the blood that flowed in Central America. : Then you do not think about it.
– DO: No, no. I was raised, the opposition told me, they even told me that I had to leave now, they said they were screaming on April 19th. I think that for the good of the country it would be a very serious precedent. Another government arrives and the front would then have the right to stop the country and ask the government to leave the next day. We would set a precedent … it would be a country in anarchy.
– E: It's you or anarchy. It's you or the chaos.
– O.D .: Yes, it is follow this path, it is open the doors of lawlessness in the country. A break in Nicaragua would be taken by drug trafficking.
– E: In 2017, you won your third term and your wife and some of your children started to hold important positions. Why are his family and his government so closely intertwined?
– DO: The only one who has held an important position is the compañera (she refers to his wife) as a Sandinista activist, I knew her as a Sandinista activist … I found in Sandinista camp and as a Sandinista activist you are entitled to a position. And first time that he occupies. My kids are dedicated to television, journalism, that's what they've studied.
– E: Also to oil
– D.O .: No, not one, that's what our opponents say. Simply, first of all we are not an oil country, here those who manage the oil industry are the big transnational corporations. And then, there was cooperation with Venezuela [donde está su hijo Rafael] on oil which has nothing to do with a commercial operation.
– E: It's a relationship with oil
– DO: But that's it
– E: There's a feeling that the differences between his family and his government may be ..
– DO: The experience of the dynasty here in Nicaragua … Somoza sent his son to West Point and made him chief of the guard, chief of the army. He sent his other son to study in the United States, and then appointed him a deputy to the badembly. His brother was appointed head of the national police; to his brother-in-law, ambbadador to the United States. The whole family is positioned so that when Somoza dies, the one who was at the congress holds the presidency. And then there was his son, then Luis Somoza dies of a heart attack … Anastasio …
– E: Mr. President, I understand that Somoza created a dynasty but we are talking about Nicaragua in 2018 … and what I ask is about the discomfort in the population, and I can deny it …
– DO: There is no country in the world where part of the population No discomfort.
– E: Yes, but not around the world, there is unease because there are family members in the government, who are dealing with important issues, they do not are not so many.
– DO: That's wrong. Let me know how many ministers, deputies, ambbadadors hold high office in the army, in the high functions of the police. They are on TV
– E: It's no problem that there is a problem in the relations between so many areas of the state and his family, his government
– DO. : They are just on TV. What crime is it, do not they have the right to work? Do not they have the right to do the newspaper? Ah, because they make an identified journalism to the efforts we make for peace … is it bad?
– E: Another of the misunderstandings that we hear is since 2011, especially, you are making efforts to perpetuate yourself in power. For example with the decision of the Constitutional Court that you could appear again. He does not understand this discomfort anymore.
D.O .: Here in Nicaragua, we start from a constitution that was born with the 1984 revolution and established multi-party, mixed and non-aligned elections on the international scene. Then we arrived in 79 and we were told that we would never give to the government, we went to elections in 84, we won the elections; We went to the elections in the 90s, we did not win the elections and we overthrew the government. The first peaceful political transition was made in the history of Nicaragua
– E: Why then try to introduce yourself again if in your constitution, it was clear, according to the badembly, that you could not not present
– DO: In the constitution of 84 was open …
– E: But in 2011 …
– DO: In 2011, I simply used the resource that the President Óscar Arias had the habit of re-electing himself to Costa Rica. President Óscar Arias is a qualified president of the most democratic Latin America
– E: Well, if Oscar Arias had to ask the same question
– DO: President Óscar Arias used this remedy to be re-elected Costa Rica and was re-elected. The president Ávaro Uribe of Colombia also used this resource
– E: And in Costa Rica and especially in Colombia, that generated the same question that I ask you
– DO: But hey, if that's the case. is good for one, it is also for another. These are principles that are open. Then in Europe …
– E: But my question is this: try to be re-elected when the constitution states that it is not in your mind, is it good or bad? It does not matter who does it
– DO: It's a constitutional path … and then the current constitution has been reformed, the current constitution leaves the doors open, does not prevent re-election, because It was reformed
– E:
– DO: So that no matter who can do it
– E: In this respect, many serious clues studying democracy in the country [The Economist, Freedom House] ensure that democracy has deteriorated because of its supposed movements. try to perpetuate yourself in power. Do you consider that Nicaragua is a democracy?
– D.O .: It is a democracy because it is ultimately the people who vote. People can not be stopped from deciding. Because … why in Europe can there be indefinite re-election systems? The foreign ministers, the prime ministers … we have cases of government leaders who have been re-elected again and again. What is good for Europeans is bad for Latin Americans? I think these are universal principles, I believe it is the people with their vote who must choose to re-elect or re-elect a person or not.
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