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The death of New York Dolls guitarist Sylvain Sylvain after a long battle with cancer means frontman David Johansen is now the last surviving member of the pioneering proto-punk group. He’s spent the last 24 hours since the news broke reflecting on his five-decade relationship with Sylvain and reading his fans’ tributes on social media. “It’s a shame that this wave of love didn’t happen in his lifetime,” says Johansen. “People should be like, ‘I’m going to die next week, so tell me how you feel now.'”
The singer called Rolling stone to share his own outpouring of love to Sylvain, and to look back on his life of memories with the brilliant guitar.
Tell me your first memory of having seen Sylvain.
I remember it very well. We started the band and just rehearsed a few times. The guy who was playing the guitar didn’t come. Suddenly Syl came into the room with a bag of rugs and a guitar. He had just got off the plane after being, I think, kicked out of Amsterdam. [Laughs] He looked great, but then he started playing and I thought, “Oh my God. We must have this guy. He is great.”
I didn’t know much, he and some of the other guys in the band had been in cahoots before he was in Europe. They were talking about making a group. They had [drummer] Bowl [Murcia] and [guitarist] John [Johnny Thunders]. I don’t know if he knew Arthur [Kane] or not. But I didn’t know it. I just knew “this guy is fantastic”, and he was.
What role did he play in creating the New York Dolls look?
I do not know. I read about how he was instrumental in this area. I guess he was. I know we were all very much what we considered “trendy” at the time. But he was friends with [fashion designer] He and Betsey Johnson hooked up filming the album’s first cover art. I don’t think he dressed us since I can tell by looking at the photo that they were all clothes we had.
But he came from a long line of tailors. He was very fond of clothes and was a regular shopper when we were on the road.
He was born in Egypt and lived for a while in France. How do you think that shaped him?
His family moved to New York. The organization that sponsored them said, “You can live in any of these places.” The only place in New York was Buffalo. [Laughs] They had parents in Brooklyn. I think his dad said, “Buffalo? This is New York. It’s near Brooklyn. They went to Buffalo. He said his mother cried the whole time they were there. I don’t know how long they were there, but they eventually moved to New York.
When I first met him, we were all New York guys. He was a fascinating guy, but I wasn’t sure about his past. When we started going to Europe, I could tell he was very sure of himself.
When you think of the days of the Mercer Arts Center, what images of Sylvain come out in your head?
He was just a great kid back then. He was such a passionate performer. He was very positive all the time. He was very important to this group and their success. You know what I mean by “success”. Not so much the graphics and all that bullshit. It was what we were creating. He was an integral part of it.
Could you clarify this?
If it hadn’t been for him, the band would have sounded crap. He knew what he was doing and he could play the guitar. He came with very good rhythms. He was very accomplished. He was a natural player. He loved to play.
The sound he got when he played with Johnny was a key part of the Dolls sound.
Absolutely. Syl just has a place here. He knew what to do, especially at the beginning. I think of the early days. We have a long history. So we wrote songs together, but when we got back together, we wrote a ton of songs.
New York was just incredibly different back then.
The city was not really designed for groups like it is now. There weren’t a lot of places to rehearse or play. Previously we had to convince people, impresarios or whatever you want to call them, that we could attract a crowd. They really weren’t made for music, so to speak. It’s the same thing when we go on the road. Before, we had to cut down trees, build a stage and put up posters in the city. [Laughs]
The group faced a ton of setbacks in the early days. Billy is dead and the albums didn’t sell. Still, it seemed Syl had always believed in the group’s potential.
Absolutely. He never lost his faith. I don’t think any of us speaking for myself really had any expectations of world domination. We were just doing what we were doing and you could take it or leave it, basically. John was very ambitious at the time. It was he who said: “We must repeat! We must repeat! I would say, ‘Can’t we rehearse on stage? What is the difference?” [Laughs]
I loved Syl. We used to bedroom together when we were on the road. There were days when we had to double up with two guys per room and the fifth had to share a room with the route manager. It would be me and Syl in a room and when we first went to Europe and went to a restaurant he knew all the waiters and they treated him like a prince. It was that sort of thing.
The group ended up falling towards you and him towards the end of the original series.
We tried, the two of us. We did a lot of good things during that time after the original band disbanded. At that time, nobody cared about our career or anything. In an ideal world, there would have been someone out there that everyone trusted to some degree, someone who would have said, “Why don’t you take six months off?”
But we were so close to melee back then. We always thought, “If we don’t do this gig, we don’t make the rent.”
The band is loved so much now, it’s easy to forget that you were really struggling back then.
Life is hard. Otherwise, it would probably be very boring.
You continued to work with Syl after the breakup.
We played together for years after the band broke up. When I got a recording deal with Steve Paul, he was in the band for the first two albums I made. It had been several years, longer than the Dolls had been together. Look, I loved this guy. We used to write great songs together. The stuff that would come out of his musical creativity, I loved that.
Did it surprise him that the group reunited in 2004? I’m sure it even surprised you even though you did.
When we first decided we were going to do this, I was a little reluctant. Then I thought, ‘We’re going to go to England and stay in a nice hotel in London. It will be a nice break. I sang a lot at the time with Hubert Sumlin and did the Harry Smith stuff. I thought it would be nice to have a little reminder. He thought it would be great to see Syl and Arthur.
We were just going to do a show. It was sold out, so they put on another show. Then we started to receive many offers for these European festivals. It was late spring when we did this show. I was like, “If we’re up and running, let’s go ahead and see what happens.” Then we kept doing it for I don’t know how long.
I think it was seven years.
Yeah. At the very beginning, Arthur died completely unexpectedly. He thought he had the flu and it turned out he had leukemia. It was rather devastating. I loved him too. Each of the dolls was so different and so interesting. Either way, we persevered and got [bassist] Alone [Yaffa] in the group and continued.
How did your friendship deepen with Syl during this time?
When you’re with someone for so long, you go through different kinds of phases. We laughed so much and had a lot of fun. We both really dug to get on stage and get him out. I was just looking at pictures of us on these tours. We were still laughing.
I love these new records. They must have been fun to do.
It was great. After playing for a while, we just thought, “We have a repertoire, but it’s old. Let’s refresh it. “We were coming up with songs that really worked.
Why did it end in 2011?
It was just a little… we were exhausted. We had been on the road for about eight years. There was never any question of “This is it forever”. We kind of chilled it for a while and it lasted.
Have you spoken to him a lot over the past decade?
Yeah. We spoke from time to time.
How was he? I knew the past three years had been difficult with her battle with cancer.
He really thought he was going to beat him. He was a tough little bastard. I thought he was going to be okay too. But apparently it had been more intense and in more parts of his body than I really knew.
Getting the news must have been devastating.
I can’t say it was a shock, but it… I don’t know how to explain it, but physically there was a heavy weight on my chest. I am still processing it. I am sure I will be for the rest of my life, I will treat it.
How do you feel the last one now?
That I’m next.
Do not say that. It is quite dark.
[Laughs] Its good. I am quite dark. You know? I didn’t even think about it that much. It’s too much thought.
I’ve seen people call the Dolls the “unluckiest band in rock history.”
Morrissey says that. This Morrissey is like… I don’t mean… [Laughs]
It can also be quite dark.
But also, he knows how to spin a thread as well as the best of them.
He has a point. There have been a lot of tragedies.
Yeah, there certainly is. It’s like those old doo-wop bands.
When you think of Syl right now, what images come to mind? What are good thoughts?
It makes me smile because we’ve done so much and had so much fun together. This is how I feel. It’s mostly about me. As far as he was concerned, and whatever situation he found himself in the past few years, he was busy fighting what he had. I really have a hard time finding anything other than the joy we shared and created together.
It’s so disappointing that you’re not yet in the Hall of Fame. He would have loved that.
He would have wanted that, yes. My feelings about it were a little different from him, but I felt I had a responsibility if it happened that I should support him on it.
If you step up now, it will only be you on the podium.
I hope not. Maybe I can send a representative. I can send one of the prostitutes on 42nd Street to give the acceptance speech.
The group is obviously finished forever, right? Would you never do it on your own?
I have no intention of doing this, no. It would be crazy.
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