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In the third presidential election cycle of 2020, the top 10 Democratic candidates were together for the first time. And at a historic turning point, the three Democratic leaders – Joe Biden, Elizabeth Warren, and Bernie Sanders – were together on the same stage.
Who won? Who lost? Who gave the best answers?
Matt Yglesias and Tara Golshan join Today, explained host Sean Rameswaram for a complete breakdown of the third democratic debate. They discuss the insistence of the candidates to thank the boss, the patron saint Barack Obama, and the reason why we did not attend any moments of discussion.
Although Thursday night, there were still some candidates to follow Biden – tied if you watched the previous debates – the feeling was different. Long-shot candidates like Bill De Blasio and John Delaney were not there to try to interfere in the list of candidates in mind. And without these absurdly short deadlines, everyone has quarreled and talked more about real issues that really matter to voters – like racism.
"We were hoping something would change as it was the first opportunity to see Warren and Sanders on stage with Biden," said Tara Golshan. But finally, "we did not see any decisive moment last night during which I plan to change the outcome in the future."
The former vice president may have had a bad performance Thursday night, but, as Matt Yglesias pointed out, Joe Biden continues to win – especially since none of the other candidates are taking it. really.
"Joe Biden wins the race because he was the popular vice president of a popular Obama administration. And that's what people want. And you have not seen much effort to probe what I think are some of Biden's most serious weaknesses. "
To find out more about each candidate's position in the 2020 race before the October debate, listen to Golshan and Yglesias in the latest episode of Today, explained:
You can listen Today, explained wherever you get your podcasts, including: Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher and ART19.
Below, we shared a slightly modified transcript of the September 13, 2019 conversation between Matthew Yglesias and Tara Golshan. Today, explained host Sean Rameswaram.
Sean Rameswaram
Last night's debate highlighted some moments that may have seemed a little vintage if you watched the previous debates: people ran after the favorite, Joseph Robinette Biden, Jr. Bernie, called the advertisers. Kamala called Trump. But apart from these few cases, we really had something different. Bill De Blasios and John Delaneys did not try to interfere in the ranks of the main candidates. There were fewer absurdly short deadlines for candidates. And this has led to less well-argued and more substantive explanations of what people want to do as president. It may not have been the most exciting three hours of television, but it seemed like a healthier forum for people trying to figure out what they think about these top 10 candidates. [Vox politics reporter] Tara Golshan was at the Vox Internal Watch Party.
Tara Golshan
Last night, the topics discussed were different from previous debates. They tackled racism in a way that was not only superficial. They talked about firearms policy. They talked about immigration. They talked about education policy and foreign policy, and these are not necessarily topics that have often been discussed.
Sean Rameswaram
Well, let's get into what they said, starting with racism, which, I repeat, deserves the CBA moderators to have the merit of saying, "We're going to have a real conversation about racism. "
Tara Golshan
In the past, this kind of litmus test consisted of saying, "Do you support repairs or not?" But last night, it was written, "Voters are really concerned about racism in the country and what are you going to do about it? "And so candidates like Beto came and said, it's not enough to denounce Donald Trump. Racism is rampant in our education system, in our health system. Castro actually complimented Beto for the way he framed it. Booker talked about environmental justice, then Harris was curiously asked to answer for his criminal record. And so she was trying to ask why it was going on and what she wanted to do differently.
Sean Rameswaram
And this conversation about race was particularly important last night because the debate had taken place in a historically black Houston university. Right?
Tara Golshan
This framed the whole conversation from the start. The audience was composed of students from a historically black university, so it was obvious that the question was poignant for this specific audience.
Sean Rameswaram
Let's go to firearms. I think a lot of candidates wanted to put Beto in particular to congratulate him on the way he handled the filming in El Paso. Beto finally had the time to speak and decide.
Tara Golshan
He said, I'm not just talking to Texas Democrats about it. After the shooting, I went to Arkansas at a gun show and I heard that there was a lot of agreement about it. And he was complimented on the scene by people like Vice President Joe Biden for the way he talked about it.
Sean Rameswaram
And of course, the shootings that Beto abandoned after his campaign in El Paso involved immigrants, including Latino immigrants. What do the candidates have to say about immigration?
Tara Golshan
The immigration appeared last night in a way that really thought for the Democratic Party. It was a debate between Julián Castro, who has become somehow the leader of the Democratic realm on this subject …
Sean Rameswaram
And he somehow made it personal by saying, "A few weeks ago, a shooter drove 10 hours, inspired by this president, to kill people who looked like me."
Tara Golshan
And what was interesting last night was that Julian Castro really pushed Joe Biden to say that the Obama administration had information on immigration. The Obama administration has been the subject of much criticism for a large number of evictions, for not having handled the migrant crisis very well, for some sort of permanent conflict between the humanitarian crisis and the to strengthen the border. That sort of thing happened last night in a way that really put Biden to the test, and he did not have a good answer.
Sean Rameswaram
Immigration is something we've heard a bit about in previous debates, but last night we had a more in-depth discussion on education and foreign affairs that we have not seen in any of the previous debates. Have we learned anything about what these candidates want to do when it comes to education?
Tara Golshan
Several candidates expressed their support for universal pre-kindergarten, the increase of teachers' salaries. This is the kind of position you expect from presidential candidates, but we do not often talk about it.
Sean Rameswaram
And in one way or another, foreign affairs also seemed to have been left out in previous debates. What did we learn last night about how these people want to manage the world?
Tara Golshan
The world, vast as it is, is not the subject of the most vigorous debate. And last night it was even mentioned in immigration conversations; Warren, for example, spoke of the need to support the countries of Central America. And then, Bernie Sanders was also questioned directly about Venezuela, which is currently experiencing a huge economic and political crisis, and which is led by a socialist dictator in Maduro. And strangely, the question asked to Sanders was: "Why do not you call Maduro a socialist dictator?" Sanders came out and said very clearly that I considered him a terrible tyrant and then took the opportunity to say: …
Sean Rameswaram
The last big part of this foreign affairs conversation that we should mention is of course Afghanistan, which was a thorn for the president, especially this week last week. Did the Democrats have a solution to our current conflict in this country?
Tara Golshan
I would not say that we had very detailed solutions last night, but it was clear that the Democrats wanted to withdraw from Afghanistan. In particular, Warren announced that she would leave Afghanistan even though there was no market with the Taliban. So you saw people like Pete Buttigieg – who is actually a veteran and was stationed in Afghanistan – and people like Senator Bernie Sanders who committed to ending these "endless wars", as they call. This was therefore mentioned and corresponded to what the Democrats said about foreign policy in the Middle East.
Sean Rameswaram
Instead of concluding, the debate ended with a typical job interview: "Tell us about the setback you faced and how you got out of it." Who gave the most memorable answer?
Tara Golshan
I think that a really historic moment last night was when Pete Buttigieg, on the national scene, told his story as a moment of resilience. You would not have imagined that this could happen in the United States five or ten years ago.
You have just seen a more personal feeling of candidates. You heard something that Warren said a lot about the stump, his story about being successful at school and managing sexist workplace policies when she was pregnant and looking for a job. And then you saw the same thing about Andrew Yang, who had failed at his first venture and now stands as president. According to Bernie Sanders, someone who in the 2016 race did not like to talk about his personal story, but who is now starting to talk about the fact that he is the son of a young man. an immigrant and that he lived in a rent-controlled apartment and that he had child financial difficulties, but he was somehow given a mission to defend the interests of the working class. So you really saw all these stories and an opportunity for them to share them.
Sean Rameswaram
Yesterday evening, I found something refreshing in this debate: it did not seem that anyone had really moved the needle where it was on the ground. And it does not really feel like anyone else is trying to do it. It almost looked like a more honest exchange in which we, the viewers, knew more about all these people. Is the field narrowed at all in your eyes?
Tara Golshan
We went last night knowing that this was the first debate in which the top three candidates were gathered on the scene. We were expecting something to change here, as this was the first opportunity to see Warren and Sanders on stage with Biden, it was a real opportunity. And then you had those kind of middle-ranking candidates who had moments in the past, like Pete Buttigieg and Harris, that they stood out, but that did not really block them in the polls. But we have not seen any discussion moment last night expect to change the outcome in the future.
At the next debate in October, it seems that the field will be bigger and bigger; Already 11 candidates have qualified for this debate, so there is a good chance that it will be two more nights. So it's not really clear for now, in January and February, at the beginning of the vote, if something has changed dramatically.
Sean Rameswaram
Which means that Biden is still in the lead.
Tara Golshan
Yeah. Biden is still in the lead.
Sean Rameswaram
In a minute, Why Is Biden still in the lead?
Matthew Yglesias
You know, Joe Biden wins the race, I think, because he was the popular vice president of the Obama administration. And that's what people want. And you have not done much to explore what I think are some of Biden's most serious weaknesses.
Sean Rameswaram
Which are?
Matthew Yglesias
I think above all of his age. Polls showed that voters were seriously concerned about a candidate over 70 years old. Warren and Sanders are over 70 years old. They are not well placed to argue this argument.
Sean Rameswaram
Like President Trump, it turns out.
Matthew Yglesias
As is President Trump. But you see clearly on the scene of the debate that Biden seems less strong, in my opinion, than Sanders and Warren. And you really saw him last night when he gave that answer to a question about slavery and repairs, which put him in a difficult position. Biden was not going to approve the repairs. This is a moderate. It's a pragmatic one. This is the candidate for eligibility. But he also has a big African American base in this primary, so, you know, he wants to answer the question in a way that takes into account everyone's feelings. But what he's starting to do is say he's very confused about his education plan, which I can tell you, because the real solution is to invest in preschool care and in nursing home visits. But if you listen to what he actually said …
Sean Rameswaram
Incomprehensible.
Matthew Yglesias
It was like gibberish about radios and turntables, and I'm getting to know what Biden's policy is about it so I can translate it for you. But if you look at it, you would have no idea. And then, very oddly, he went away. I think what he said about Venezuela was reasonable, but it had nothing to do with the issue. Then the subject was passed on to Julian Castro, who sort of made a joke.
If this had been the beginning of this conversation, it would have been interesting. But earlier, earlier in the debate, Castro had left behind Biden, who was petty and, in the details, unjustly.
It's a little tedious but not like Biden. So, I think that Castro had looked bad at a bad problem, then he came back to the subject, but he had already missed a bit, you know, he ruined everything.
Sean Rameswaram
Castro was trying to say, "Look at this candidate who does not remember what he said a minute ago because he is too old to remember."
Matthew Yglesias
And you know that Castro has criticized a lot for that. So, I'm not going to ship because it was not done well. But the fact is that there are many reports that say that one of the reasons Obama chose Biden in 2008, that's why he chose it, for example Evan Bayh, which is a politically similar figure, is because Biden was old Obama thought Biden would not run to be his successor in 2016.
This would help his administration to work more easily. He did not admire Bush-Cheney's political decisions, but he felt that the dynamic between a president and a vice president was good and correct. And indeed, Biden did not run in 2016, right? Obama has somehow passed the torch to Hillary Clinton. But Biden four years later, he jumps in the race. He is a little older than anyone who had been president before. And it's not like, "Wow, he's a little older than those who've ever been president, but he does not show it at all." He shows it.
He seems to be the oldest and most important candidate in the presidential election. I do not think it's necessarily a decisive factor. It's not like Donald Trump was like Mr. Mental Acuity. Politics matters a lot. Biden, you know, has a lot of good answers. He has a lot of reasonable ideas. But this is a perfectly normal and reasonable thing that people can discuss, especially for the candidates at the back of the ticket. You had on the Amy Klobuchar stage, you had Cory Booker, you had Pete Buttigieg. They are people whose political ideas are not very different from those of Biden, but who are 10, 15, 20, 30 years old in the case of Buttigieg, 40 years younger. And you might think they could talk about it, but nobody has been so far.
Sean Rameswaram
He has also been in politics forever.
Matthew Yglesias
He entered the Senate in 1972, right?
Sean Rameswaram
Yeah. When was very young. In his 20 years!
Matthew Yglesias
It's a long time ago. But he has been in power for a long time. He has been in Washington for a long time. And you do not traditionally win presidential elections by defending insiders in Washington. Right?
Sean Rameswaram
Not recently.
Matthew Yglesias
Trump looked strangely like a stranger. But you know that Barack Obama, Bill Clinton, were sort of outsiders in a normal way, right? Obama was in the Senate only a few years ago. Clinton had been the governor of a small state. Parties normally succeed by nominating a candidate who promises to clean up the mess in Washington.
Biden has been part of the mess in Washington for longer than most of the Democrats were alive. You know, I think it's again a worthwhile thing to talk about. Do Democrats want to go against Trump with their champion being a kind of swamp emblem? Or do they want a stranger who can claim to solve the problems?
Sean Rameswaram
And is this the safe way to have the discussion instead, perhaps like Castro last night, to turn more towards something that could be considered an ageist?
Matthew Yglesias
I think it might be wiser to say, "Look, do we really want to go through this campaign to advocate the votes that took place in the 1980s? Do we really want someone who is so associated with the United States Congress for a million years? Like, "Do not we want a voice of change? Someone of the future? You know, something like that. And I had the impression that it was simmering under the surface during the debate last night, but nothing had been done as it should.
Sean Rameswaram
Eric Swalwell said it in the face from the first debate. Now that he has dropped out of school, could he ironically invoke the same argument in Iowa – Sanders or Warren -?
Matthew Yglesias
You know, it can be. I mean, it's again, Sanders and Warren are not ideally placed to argue this point.
And the other moderates of the race seem to be very cautious. I think the Klobuchars of the world are sort of waiting to see if Warren exceeds Biden. And then, there is a kind of panic in the establishment and they say to themselves, "Oh, we need you, Amy."
Sean Rameswaram
If Biden wins Iowa wins the race?
Matthew Yglesias
Yeah. I mean, Biden is in a very strong position. I do not think his performances as performances were decisive, but Donald Trump did not perform well in the Republican debates and he still won the nomination quite easily because he had the views with which most Republicans agreed. Most Republicans wanted a tough anti-immigration policy and a more flexible approach to social security and health insurance. And Trump defended that. And then he won. I think most Democrats want some kind of political continuity with Obama. They want a little political caution to adopt extravagant progressive ideas. Biden represents that. If he can win there, the rest of the calendar will be easier. There are only a few months left, but unless something really changes, he is still about to win.
Sean Rameswaram
And do you think that one of the upcoming debates between January and January would bring change?
Matthew Yglesias
I think the debates are the best opportunity to upset the story of the race, especially for the top-three candidates, because the debates level the playing field a bit. Your Booker Cory. Your Beto O'Rourke. Your Pete Buttigieg. Your Kamala Harris. For example, you can be on the scene with the opportunity to draw attention to yourself and if you use it well, you can get things done.
Listen Today, explained wherever you get your podcasts, including: Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher and ART19.
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