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President Donald Trump’s personal attorney Rudy Giuliani told ABC News he is working as part of the president’s defense team in his upcoming impeachment trial – and that he is prepared to argue that the allegations President’s widespread electoral fraud did not constitute incitement to violence because – the disputed claims are true.
“I’m involved right now… that’s what I’m working on,” said Giuliani, ABC News chief White House correspondent Jonathan Karl.
Hours later, Giuliani – who led the president’s efforts to overturn the 2020 election results – was spotted in the White House.
Giuliani’s involvement in Trump’s impeachment defense comes as many lawyers involved in the president’s first indictment, including White House attorney Pat Cipollone and his deputies and outside attorneys Jay Sekulow and Jane and Marty Raskin, do not plan to return for the second trial.
Along with Trump, Giuliani spoke at the Jan.6 rally ahead of the Capitol attack, where he urged the crowd to engage in a “trial by fight.” Five people, including a Capitol Police officer, died when pro-Trump supporters marched to Capitol Hill after the rally and forcibly entered the building in an attempt to prevent members of Congress from certifying the election presidential election of President-elect Joe Biden.
Giuliani said there were “different opinions” on how the president should approach his second indictment.
The former New York mayor has said that in his defense of the president, he will bring forward allegations of widespread electoral fraud that have been raised – and dismissed – in dozens of courtrooms across the country.
“They basically claimed that at all times [Trump] says that voter fraud, voter fraud – or me, or anyone else – we incite violence; let these words fight the words because it is totally wrong, “he said.” Well, if you can prove that to be true, or at least true enough that it is a legitimate point of view, then they no longer fight the words.
He also said he personally believes Trump should decide to dismiss the lawsuit altogether.
“If they decide to bring him to trial, he would have to move to dismiss the indictment as totally illegal. That it was the only indictment ever made in two days, three days,” Giuliani told ABC News. “We would say to the court, ‘You allow now in the future, basically two days from now, Congress can just indict whatever it wants.’
In a historic move last week, the House of Representatives voted to impeach Trump, with all Democrats as well as 10 Republican members voting to accuse the president of instigating his supporters to storm the U.S. Capitol.
“The President of the United States has instigated this insurgency, this armed rebellion, against our common country. He must go,” House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-California, told the House. “He represents a clear and present danger to the nation we all love.”
Republican Liz Cheney, the third Republican to lead the House, was among 10 Republicans who voted to charge the president. Cheney issued a scathing statement condemning the president’s actions ahead of the vote, writing, “The President of the United States called this crowd together, gathered the crowd and lit the flame of this attack. All that followed was his doing. arrived without the president. “
Giuliani rejected the validity of the single article of impeachment accusing Trump of inciting violence against the government on the grounds that the president’s rally speech did not incite riot because there was a delay between speech and attack.
“Basically if [incitement] it’s going to happen, it’s got to happen right away, “he said.” People should be exhausted, people should miss this frozen discourse, all the way to Capitol. And it’s basically incitement, ”Giuliani said.
If the effort to dismiss the impeachment article fails, which is likely, Giuliani said he would not rule out the president testifying. Trump’s lawyers have objected to him testifying in his first impeachment trial, but Giuliani says the situation is different and the impeachment defense is “much simpler.”
“You always make this decision at the last minute,” Giuliani said. “As a lawyer, I wouldn’t be as strongly opposed to his testimony as I was then.”
Sources close to the president had recently told ABC News that Trump has grown increasingly angry with Giuliani and has not taken his calls, but now he still appears to be heavily involved in discussions of how to handle the impeachment trial.
One of the big questions remaining over Trump’s last days in office is what pardons he can grant and if he tries to forgive himself, which Trump has told advisers he would like to do even if no president does. never did. White House attorney Pat Cipollone has advised Trump against self-pardon, in part because he doesn’t think such a pardon would hold in court, people familiar with the conversations said.
Giuliani declined to say what advice he gave the president to forgive himself, but told ABC News his personal opinion was it was perfectly justified.
“I think any lawyer should tell you that there is nothing in the Constitution that allows it. There is nothing in the Constitution that prohibits it. Plain language in the Constitution does not limit who we can forgive, ”Giuliani said. “Do I think there is a justification for this because of the atmosphere we are in? A practical justification? Absolutely.”
Giuliani dismissed concerns from some Trump advisers that self-forgiveness would make Trump more vulnerable to future civil lawsuits, as it would be seen as an admission of guilt.
“I mean his legal life is going to be complicated no matter what,” Giuliani told ABC News. “Maybe because I’m more of a criminal lawyer than a civilian lawyer, I much prefer my civilian life to be complicated than my criminal life.”
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