Octavio Paz by Marie José

CITY OF MEXICO (apro) .- In this interview published on March 28, 1994, about the 80 years of the poet Octavio Paz, his wife Marie José Tramini, deceased this Thursday, made a memorable personal description of intellectual of the Nobel Prize of Literature 1990: "It's not macho, it's not pedantic, it's not careful, it's not boastful, it's not a liar he is not elegant, he is angry, credulous, funny, loyal, generous … "

***

Marie-José Paz. Marillo, as the poet says, is the French woman who captivated Octavio Paz in India. He is his wife and today, a few days – March 31st – he will be eighty years old, unveils a Nobel Prize for Literature which is for her "best husband than writer":

– That 's it! is it about Octavio Paz? that you fell in love?

-C-was a happy rush of several chemical ingredients that has proven, until now, to be a good formula.

-The moment they met …

-We met at a party on the terrace of a beautiful house in Sunder Nagar district, New Delhi, in 1962. Octavio Paz had just arrived as ambassador of Mexico. I lived in India for some time and I was very young.

"It was the hour of the garden party, that shiny golden hour of the Indian afternoon, which transforms all objects, transfigures people and makes the moment tangible. Fragrances grow gardens and float in the air for a long time while parakeets ("turquoise gusts": O.P.) continually scratch. Many saris have further illuminated the atmosphere. I spoke with friends in a corner of the terrace and suddenly Octavio appeared and introduced himself.

"I remember looking at her white shark skin suit and extravagant blue-mauve tie. On the other hand, I do not remember how I was dressed. I only remember that I had jasmine bracelets because Octavio showed it to me and when I told him that I'd bought these garlands at Connaught Place from one place to another. little leper who lived from this chambita, he was surprised, I do not know if it was horror or admiration. Total who followed the very lively conversation, Octavio, without a doubt, was a rare presence in this party.

"Later we saw ourselves frequently in many meetings where the diplomatic corps usually went and many artists and intellectuals, something always inevitably attracted us

". At that time, I read Balzac, and I remember that when I told him about a new, Modeste Mignon, I was surprised that he knew it so minutely. At that time, we spoke in French. Although I studied Spanish, I did not dare to speak it.

"Anyway, after two years, I left and I left India."

"In Paris, we met again and went back to Delhi with him and forever."

– In daily relationships, are they spoken in French or Spanish?

-We speak French and Spanish. Many times he speaks French and I speak Spanish, but it's the same language.

– What does he call in the daily deal?

– Marijó tells me, but he pronounces it with double élé: "Marillo", which amounts to giving two wings to my name.

-The best moments that happened together …

-This belongs to the intimate life and I will not answer it.

What is the character of Octavio Paz in the house?

– This is not conventional, it 's not macho, it' s not pedantic, it 's not opportunistic, it' s not cautious. He is not bragging, he is not a liar, he is not elegant. He is angry (just like me). He is credulous, funny, loyal, generous, he hates smallness and lambisconería. Demanding, uncompromising in work and creation, is rigorous with himself and tolerant with others (especially with me) but thank God he is not a saint! and, despite having written so much, he calls himself lazy …

His High Quality: Transparency

His Great Defect: Transparency.

-What will he give as a birthday present?

I'm not Penelope and I do not know how to knit, I'm not going to give her a sweater in her hand. As you have read all the books, I will not give you a book either, and if I tell you now what the gift will be, it will not come as a surprise to him.

-How are you going to celebrate?

-What did your husband say about your next birthday?

-What do you prefer to do twenty years with the experience of eighty?

* * * * *

For more than 19 years, Marie-José Paz has dedicated herself to the visual arts. Practice the collage. He exhibited his work, for the first time, in a collective exhibition, in 1990, to show "the importance that the work of writer and poet Octavio Paz has for Europe and the 39; America ", as he describes in the catalog Robert R. Littman, director of the Contemporary Art Center of Mexico City, where the exhibition was mounted

– How are the eyes and eyes of Octavio for the artist who likes it?

-The eyes see, the eyes look. I fully trust Octavio's judgment about what I'm doing. Fortunately, we do not always agree. As for his eyes and his gaze from the physical point of view, he is certainly his with a more seductive power. His portrait I did in 90 for the exhibition "The privileges of sight", entitled: Eros mirada, or the blue eyes of the typewriter.

– Do you have a peace influence in Marijó's career as an artist?

– The first influence of the poet on me was a disaster: I wrote poems by his influence and it was the end of my career! I preferred to search for other roads. I do not regret it

– What are the favorite artists of Marijó?

– During a trip to Italy a few years ago, I discovered Etruscan art at Villa Julia in Rome and I was fascinated. For me, the ideal of masculine beauty is the Apollo de Veio. The perfection of the body and the mysterious smile are an indefinable mixture of the most earthly and the most spiritual.

-Marie-José as an artist and wife

– This is to ask Octavio. Or read his poems.

-The works of your choice that he likes the most.

– I asked him the other afternoon and he told me that he liked a box-object called The Night's Eyes, the series, abstract, tribute to Proust entitled The characters coming out of a book and the flying telescope Hubble … But tomorrow I can do things that interest you more, the important thing is to continue the dialogue …

-The works of peace You like it the most They

– It's a difficult question, but I think I'd choose your poetry.

One of the long poems, like Nocturno of San Ildefonso or Whole Wind, or very short like:

the night

Laughing water awakens

* * * * *

The East Slope (1962-1968) is dedicated to Mary. His first edition was published in May 1969. In Whole Wind part of the anthology, the poet describes the French woman with whom he lived for three decades. Who inspired it that the present is perpetual:

… Together we cross

The four spaces the three times

And we returned to the day of the beginning

The present is perpetual [19659002] June 21 …

Octavio Paz defined Marie-José's collages and assemblages as "an unusual result of work and play", as a "dialogue between here and there". And Marie-José approaches Octavio Paz in the here and there:

– What do you think of Octavio Paz with a beard?

– He looks like another person and this has given me the feeling, not at all unpleasant, to have a new husband. As Octavio would say, "I am the same, but I am another."

The customs of Octavio Paz that fascinate you …

-Your passion for poetry. Every day he reads a poem as the others drink a tequila.

– What do Marijó and Octavio Paz do during their free time?

-We try to "save time". We love movies. Octavio has a soft spot for science fiction movies. We also hear classical music, jazz, India (quote, tablo) and rock.

-What are your favorite dishes for the poet?

-A Moroccan dish (where I lived as a girl) called tajine, made with prunes and several species. Also a lot of exotic salads, with fennel and herbs in all.

-What are the writing habits of Paz? Writing essays, writing poetry … At what time, in what way?

– There is no time, no habits. Any time and any place is good. I saw him write a poem during a storm in the middle of the ocean.

– Your favorite hours with Paz.

– Everyone

– The Friends of the Two Who Despised Him the Most

– Unfortunately, there are many. Luis Buñuel, Julio Cortázar, Kostas Papaioannou, Elizabeth Bishop, Severo Sarduy …

* * * * *

Marie-José and Paz celebrate this year, in addition to the birthday of the poet, 30 years of marriage.

How did Marijó see Octavio Paz's ambassador to India, when the events of 1968 occurred and when he made the decision to resign from the Mexican embassy? How does your mind reflect in the relationship with you, with your friends?

-These are days of great tension and sleepless nights that resulted in a decision that I totally approved. We followed with passion the events of May in Paris and when the news arrived from Mexico, Octavio became very disturbed. Upon learning the terrible truth, it became clear that Octavio had no alternative but to leave the embassy. It was painful, because we met in India, it is there that our life began, we had lived like an island, out of time. But neither he nor I hesitated for a moment. I understood the moral commitment that was for him and he even admired me more.

"I was very encouraged by the reaction of the people.As soon as Octavio's decision was made public, we were surrounded by the sympathy not only of our friends, but also of foreigners who came to the house: intellectuals, students, artists, and finally … everywhere.We decided to put time between India and what was coming, so we went by train to Bombay and then to Bombay boat in Europe At Delhi station, we were touched by the number of people who went to say goodbye to the stations on the long road to Bombay: students and ordinary people who expressed their solidarity with Octavio with garlands of flowers and candies like he was a guru, a poet-guru. "

-Paz's return to Mexico with Marijó …

-We did not return to Mexico immediately because of the political difficulties of those years. We were nomads for a season. We were in Paris a few months and then in the United States. Octavio giving courses in different universities. He was invited to inaugurate the Simón Bolívar pulpit in Cambridge, England – later occupied by Vargas Llosa, Fuentes and others. We stayed a whole year and there wrote Octavio El mono gramático. We returned to Mexico until the end of '71. Since we had no house, we lived in a tiny apartment in a house in San Ángel. It is the time of the foundation of Plural, in Excelior of Julio Scherer. In 1972, Octavio was invited by Harvard University to give Norton lectures, of which another book came out and … we continue in the wandering life.

"I came to Mexico for the first time in 1967, we had come from India, Octavio entered the National College, and as always, the Mexicans were very hospitable and friendly (Octavio would add:" especially with the newcomers ") and we received many invitations to dinner and lunch.It was summer.The first dinner we attended was at Lupe Rivera's home, the great culinary surprise was chiles in nogada, a dish that I did not know and that I liked visually.The next day, at another meal, at Fernando Gamboa, we were again served chiles in nogada and we stayed there for about a month because that each of our friends wanted to introduce me to the best of Mexican cuisine, it was the time of the chiles in nogada.I was about to get sick when Rufino Tamayo invited us to spend few days in Oaxaca, they welcomed us Every morning, very early, Olga accompanied us to have breakfast at the Oaxaca market. I discovered another Mexican "délississen": fried chapulines and sprinkled with lemon. They had to be eaten after a good glass of mezcal. We also drink atole and chilaquiles. After a few days of this diet I began to desperately miss my dear chiles in nogada.

"At the end of 1965 we spent a season with Kostas Papaioannou, in a rest house (a kind of inn of the British Raj era).), Near the splendid ruins of the temple of Mahabalipuram, south of India, at the seaside.

"One morning, Kostas tells us, very surprised, that it was the third time that a sock was disappearing from his closet The next day, the phenomenon was repeated, so that poor Kostas ran out of socks, devoured by mosquitoes, and we discussed for several nights what was soon called Mystery of the Sock Kostas decided that it was the rites of a religious sect, that he had seen in the sock a new incarnation of the god Vishnu and Octavius ​​believed that was the management of a political group that considered the sock as an attribute of Western imperialism hated It was wonderful to discover the lovable thief of socks, but I still wonder why the mouse never took a full pair! Alejandro Rossi would say: He was a collector mouse. "

* * * * *

Last question and last answer, after which Marie-José dates the handover of the questionnaire on March 17th:

-Octavio Peace as husband …

– C & # 39 is better husband than writer!

(By Ana Cecilia Terrazas)