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"He is a very kind, very good and maybe naive man" – says Adam Glapiński, president of NBP, in Poranny, interview with RMF FM, prof. Elżbieta Chojna-Duch, former deputy finance minister, discussed the case of Marek Ch., Former head of the KNF, suspected of corruption.
/RMF
Robert Mazurek, FMR FM: Marek Ch. He spent the night in custody. We say "Marek Ch.", Because the former KNF leader was charged with corruption. If it was the teacher's corruption, did he act alone or with someone?
Professor Elżbieta Chojna-Duch was Deputy Minister of Finance: – If I knew it, I obviously made a notification of the crime of this or that person, but of course I do not know it. I think it's a black sheep, but it will only be known after his hearing.
Do you think that he invented it himself? He just thought: "I'm 40, I'm a teacher, I do not win too badly, I still have a big career in front of me, but what am I going to try to do, once I crack more "?
– This is possible because the shock of appointing him to such a high position may have been too great and he has not mentally managed it. We have different options here.
I'm sorry, Minister. You say that a 40-year-old man, but ultimately not a child, has a professional position and the prospect of a big career ahead of him, he suddenly becomes insane?
– Maybe it's possible. What he said, I read it carefully and my surprise grew because it was just not serious, it was completely carefree.
I also think you should not trust people in their forties.
– Perhaps.
Mr Minister, however, the question remains: if it was recommended by Professor Glapiński, director of the National Bank of Poland, is he not responsible, at least politically, for this principle? In other words: does Adam Glapiński have to resign?
– Probably not, if he does not want, it is not possible. This is guaranteed by law.
We know it
– He is also shocked because he trusted his protégé and thought that he would work best in all respects.
Thus, unlike Professor Gomułka, you think that Mr Marek Ch. Acted alone, so Adam Glapiński assumes no responsibility in this respect? I say that because Professor Gomułka, who was also our guest, claims that it was all …
-… sitwa, mafia.
He did not use such words, but yes.
– I know Professor Glapiński well enough to trust him too. He is a very kind man, he is a very good and maybe naive man. That's all I can say. I have been working with him for six years and can give you the best recommendations.
But if the naive man is at the head of the National Bank of Poland, this is not the best recommendation either. I prefer to have someone less naive there.
– Sharp.
At least not naive, at least not that he is fooled. No one has remembered anyone for a century, Professor Glapiński is not a young man who has turned around.
– Maybe a lesson.
Or maybe in turn, I'll change the subject a bit. This whole story with Leszek Czarnecki, who records his conversation with the KNF leader, records it in March, is only revealed now, which in itself is at the origin of many assumptions, why so long. Perhaps, for example, now no one has left bank money in Swiss banks, but he holds the USB keys with eavesdropping?
– It's also possible, I do not know, I do not know it. The appropriate services already have this knowledge.
You do not have a locker in a Swiss bank with records?
– No, neither in the Swiss, nor in the locker, nor any recording. I think that it is necessary to act as it should – decently, it is the best word in each of these aspects. Save in turn, keep it at home, make blackmail, it's very cynical, demoralizing, for the moment everyone will start recording and it's bad, very bad.
Yesterday, our guest was Grzegorz Małecki, former head of the Foreign Intelligence Agency, who said that in the world of large companies, everyone is recording and it is difficult to live with.
– It's trendy, it's safe, what would you say …
You know the world as nobody.
– I do not like it because sometimes things are said differently than those spoken on camera or officially.
Do you want to tell me that sometimes a man drops something?
– Yes, and it 's unpleasant to listen to it later.
Agree, but what else, if someone lets himself down and drops his vulgarity out of his mouth, and what else he is, when he makes proposals for corruption , so it does not splatter, it's rather thought. The truth?
– That's inconceivable for me. This whole conversation was almost schizophrenic.
Professor, testified yesterday of two former Deputy Finance Ministers to the committee on VAT fraud, which is a very interesting experience for the observer. The lady was the Deputy Minister of Finance, it was your colleagues – Dariusz Daniluk and Ludwik Kotecki. You remembered everything. Dariusz Daniluk did not remember anything at all, Mr. Ludwik Kotecki, basically nothing. How is it possible that there are three deputy finance ministers, two do not remember anything and you remember everything?
– I've listened and watched places from time to time, because it took a long time. They all very well testified. And it's a big advantage of course. I do not have to cover myself with forgetfulness.
Should they?
– I do not know. Maybe they want.
And why do they want?
– It's more convenient, there are no problems.
And you are not afraid of problems?
– no
So let's talk about the problems that can be. How much more could this VAT gap cost to the state budget? I know no one has counted it on the calculator and she has not come out with so much money. But how much more? What money are we talking about?
– The most important thing is that this gap was huge, it was the size of the Polish budget.
Annual budget?
– annual budget.
So more or less?
– Count 250 billion zlotys and the budget is between 200 and 300 $, either on the side of expenses or income.
250 billion zlotys, a quarter of a billion.
– Suppose that even half of the budget, it is a very large amount. You can finance everything.
We lost so much because the VAT regulations were inaccurate, no? Let's call it so politely.
– They allowed various types of abuse, fraud and extortion. But it's not just regulation, but all the events that follow. Thus, the application of the law, and therefore the tax administration, tax audit, jurisprudence, tax interpretations too soft. This is not only Polish law, but also European law. European case law and finally the courts.
Professor, our listeners have just learned that the state budget for one year, I kindly apologize for my blame, apologizes, because someone did not watch the movie and that the other did not want to hunt big teddy bears including 250 billion zlotys … It's unimaginable money. I do not know what you can build for that. It is the year of operation of the state.
– Yes
Okay, so tell me, what did you say on television that Donald Tusk saw your work removed from the VAT Act?
– Nothing special. One word – a leak has appeared. And maybe I developed it. There were two editors at TVN.
But what flight? What leak did you talk about?
– the rules thus drawn up allow VAT fraud.
Who built these recipes personally? You said no Ministry of Finance.
– group. This is not a person. The minister was responsible because he was responsible.
Formally yes.
– He allowed me to build these rules. And because we have different departments within the Ministry of Finance, the European Department, the Legal Department, the VAT Department and many of them work in each of them.
And what was the role of Minister Sławomir Nowak, Minister of the Prime Minister's Office, Prime Minister Tusk's adviser, who, according to your testimony, was the one who decided on the form of this work?
– Yes, and even sent a letter ordering us to make these decisions, which are taken in his office in the Prime Minister's office.
Once again Minister Nowak says that the important thing is what the finance department is working on, but what it has established in its office?
– And it was so and it was the expression of my concern before manifesting later.
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