Basil Horta. "When I look at the CDS, I'm really sorry"

More than 15 years after leaving the party that he founded alongside Freitas do Amaral and Adelino Amaro da Costa, it is "with pity" that Basilio Horta looks at the CDS. Everything has changed, he laments. He is now the mayor of Sintra elected as independent and with the support of the PS, who claims to have been invited to become an activist. Even because he "never" stopped "to be a Christian democrat," he presumes. In an interview with SOL, the mayor also explained how he saw the emergence of new parties, how he was managing the process of decentralization – stressing that it would only work if the mayors had more decision-making power – and recalled the Episode of Madonna's horse.

For the President of the Republic, the results of the European are a sign that the PS will win the next legislature and the right will enter a crisis. Do you agree?

Professor Marcelo Rebelo de Sousa is right in his analysis. The right is really in deep crisis. I do not know if I should have said it, but I said it correctly. These elections demonstrate that the right wing, the PSD and the CDS are in deep crisis.

Whose fault is it?

They are in crisis because of their own mistakes, some seriously, and they need a very serious reflection on the path of these two parties since the formation of the PS government. There is a bitterness that has never ceased to exist and this is reflected in many pronouncements. The CDS adopts radical positions that are excessive and unreasonable for a party founder. And the electorate has manifested itself. The phenomenon of forbearance is also worrying and needs to be analyzed.

Since he is President of the Republic, has he noticed any excess in the way Marcelo asked the question?

Professor Marcelo Rebelo de Sousa never stops being Professor Marcelo Rebelo de Sousa. That's what gives you the popularity you have. If it was another, he did not have the same popularity. He never stops being himself. I have a great personal and political esteem for him. He is one of the smartest people I have ever met in my generation.

Do you appreciate how you served your term?

Yes, but on these questions, moreover in English, it was a little beyond the skills. We must forgive those sins.

Reflection on abstention. Why was it so strong?

Much of the abstention is related to the nature of the election, but I do not know if that is the case and if there is not some disenchantment towards politicians and politics.

Properly or without?

With a reason. I think that politics is the subject of much discussion and that the problems of the Portuguese are less discussed. It keeps people away from politics. There are problems that need to be discussed. The state of health, justice, mobility … There are many problems that require more dialogue between the parties. These politicians refuse to do this kind of work. Rui Rio has always tried to do that, but he has fallen everywhere. Asunción Cristas even makes a divorce with the PS an electoral flag. The picture we have is that there is a very hard voice to discuss party politics, but a lower voice to discuss issues of interest to people.

Is the quality of public services the price to pay for this "machine"?

This is a profound question. One of the merits of this government was to humanize politics and present certain accounts to Europe. This is a positive aspect. Now the question is: is it necessary to have a surplus? The Minister of Finance should explain if it is necessary to release a surplus when state functions must be exercised in another way. I am very much in favor of the absolute majority of the PS in the next elections. Very favorable.

Do not sympathize with this solution?

I understood this solution because we were in a parliamentary impasse. The truth is that the parties that won the elections did not win a majority in Parliament. And there were two parties on the left, which could not be excluded from democratic life or parliamentary agreements, ready to support the government. That's what the government did not want. It would not make sense. That was the reality.

And now?

Now, it's different because we're not in the same situation. It is very likely that the PS wins the elections and there is a new reality. The problem for all voters, not just for the PS, is what is sought for the next four years. Does the electorate want stability or do you prefer instability?

But do you prefer the end of the "thing"?

Of course. The end of the "contravention" does not mean the end of the dialogue on the left. Or right. I will tell you more … the absolute majority of the PS will not bring absolute power. This entails absolute responsibility because it leaves no excuse for not taking the decisions that need to be made or for making the reforms that need to be made. I hope that the PS, on behalf of the country and deserving of the majority, will participate in these elections by announcing the upcoming reforms and how it will do them.

And if the PS wins without a majority?

If the PS wins without an absolute majority, we will see what happens. If I form a minority government, I will soon have the situation of Guterres with the marsh. I was in Parliament at the time and I saw this moment. At the time, it was Limiano cheese, now I begin to hear the PAN.

In this scenario, what role should the right have?

The PSD will have to think if it wants to maintain the situation in which it refrains from talking with the PS and not to make itself available for a parliamentary agreement with the PS. The CDS should also ask if he will maintain his position by saying that he can in no way make himself available for parliamentary agreement with the PS. Are the only parties available left and left of the left? Is this what the electorate wants? Is it the mission of the center and just parties?

But Rui Rio opens the door to a dialogue …

There are days. And when he opens the door, everything falls on him.

What do you think of Rui Rio?

He is a serious and well-intentioned man, I do not doubt it. But I do not know if there is a way to do what you do. In politics, there is the question of the path and the ability to intervene and I do not know if that is the case. But this is a minor problem in terms of the gravity of the object. I do not know either, it remains you who supports it, it is fundamental. Did not have and the results are in sight. But the reaction to this mediocre result was not the best either.

The European opened the door to the absolute majority of the PS?

It was a sign that the PS could reach the absolute majority. But you have to do it on behalf of the country and not just on behalf of the party. If you run for the elections only on behalf of the party, you will not get the majority. But I believe that those who are not part of the PS can look at the political situation and what is coming and vote for the party, which is my case. I am a Christian Democrat, I have never ceased to be a Democrat. The international situation is not as favorable as the one we have seen, given the economic problems. The pace of economic growth in the country is good but insufficient.

The PS has already noticed that?

The PS has to admit it. We need to look at the economy very seriously and not just for finance. We need to look at external competitiveness and credit policy and tax policy. It is essential to have a good dialogue with entrepreneurs, because the best way to conduct a social policy is to create jobs. Make no mistake. But are the projects needed in the country the ones the BE or PCP can support? I have doubts that you do.

But that was possible.

Until now, they have reached a remarkable balance. If Pedro Nuno Santos has the same success in the ministry [das Infraestruturas e Habitação] that he had to the secretary of state will have a great political future. I imagine the work he had to do to achieve a balance at the parliamentary level. It was an exceptional job.

But some structural measures have not progressed because of lack of agreement.

Yes, but it is true that the PS, despite its support for the left with antagonistic party values, has never lost its own rhetoric.

In addition to tax reform and credit, do we need more public investment?

Yes, but you have to be very careful to understand where this applies because we manage taxpayers' money. I am familiar with the position of the Minister of Finance and his tremendous dedication. Here in Sintra, from the first day, I have three principles of which I have not talked about a millimeter: control spending, increase investment and reduce taxes. That's what I did. I've cut six points in the IMI and more than 70 million euros in current expenses.

Has not this been applied to the government?

And I think that should apply. I am convinced that the SP shares these principles, it must now have a parliamentary majority to apply them.

Have you ever been invited to PS activist?

I have never been. They have this delicacy for me. But I had the PS of support and solidarity without fail. I never felt bad about the party. I have a great taste and a great honor to be supported by this holiday. It's a good match.

How do you see CDS today?

When I look at the CDS, I'm really sorry.

Has the party changed a lot?

This has not changed the name or the statement of principles. The rest has changed everything.

There was a phase where you changed the name …

Yes, even that. But I do not like to comment on the party that I helped found with my dear friend Diogo Freitas do Amaral and Adelino Amaro da Costa. It would have been different if it was not dead. If Adelino Amaro da Costa and Sá Carneiro were not dead, everything would be different in Portugal. I have suffered a lot from this tragedy. They were two great figures of Portuguese politics.

He became a member of the government of Sá Carneiro …

I have been Minister of Sá Carneiro in all his governments. It was a great prime minister. This phase of political life was very exciting. It was the real democratization after April 25 with the subordination of military power to political power and the clear victory of representative democracy. It was a good time.

He was also part of the only coalition government between the PS and the CDS.

I have been too. Another big government. When we were in government in 1978, the state did not have the money to buy food from the people. I was trade minister and Silva Lopes on Thursday sent me a piece of paper with the money I could spend next week. We made the rationing passwords.

The times were hard?

It was a moment of extreme difficulty and managed to overcome. Minister of Finance, Vítor Constâncio went to the EIB in Washington with a letter from Mário Soares to raise $ 500 million. It is with this money that we managed to balance the accounts and recover them. At that time, there were two cod distributions, one at Easter and one at Christmas. There were no more. But the difficulties have been overcome. And at that time, we were not in Europe, we did not receive the billions that we have today. The Portuguese are a great people, it must be well managed.

He agreed to be an independent MP supported by the PS on the invitation of José Sócrates. How did you see the whole process that concerns you?

That surprised me a lot. Disillusionment will only be final after being judged. Until here, I'm doing my analysis.

What is it?

The Socrates engineer has two different moments in the governments and the difference between the first and the second government is the ambition. In the first government, by absolute majority, he was a good prime minister. I was president of AICEP, I worked with him and he never asked me, he never gave me any order and of great interests were on the table. We met in São Bento on Fridays every 15 days. Also present were the Ministers of the Economy and the Environment, and we have seen, one by one, the major investments made in Portugal. The big investments of Embraer, Ikea, Galp or the role of Pedro Queiroz Pereira have all been decided there. The second government, without an absolute majority, was different.

So?

He was no longer the same Prime Minister, nor the same program. It was a different government. But it has nothing to do with the person. In contact with Socrates, I never had anything to say. If others have … I do not have it. What has come to light is an amazing thing. I never thought I had this connection with his friend. He did not know and did not even need to know. It was something that was completely out of the way. Even when we disagreed with politics, it has always been an exemplary solution for me.