Shaquille O 'Neal vs. Kobe Bryant: Who is higher on the scale of all time? | Bleacher's report

Shaquille O 'Neal or Kobe Bryant?

It's the debate that never dies. And this week, Kobe himself has breathed new life, whether he likes it or not.

"I'd like it to be at the gym, "said Bryant about Shaq in an otherwise complimentary response to Patrick Bet-David of Valuetainment (h / t NBA Central) "I would have 12 rings."

It was not long before "Shaq", "Kobe" and "Shaq and Kobe" were all in fashion on Twitter.

"There is no beef with @SHAQ "Kobe later tweeted. "I know most media want to see it but it will not happen. Not nothing but I love it there and we are too old for beef anyway # 3peat "

"That's good everyone, when I saw the interview, I thought you were talking about Dwite, that's how you spell his name lol, " Shaq responded.

Leaving aside the connection Dwight Howard, Shaq and Kobe seem to be doing well now. This was not always the case, of course. The Lakers Nation has a small orderly chronology of their different shoots with each other.

But regardless of their relationship after the new comments, they did speak to fans of the NBA. And the NBA fans who speak can make us think.

Who was really better? Kobe had the insatiable thirst to win. Shaq had physical traits and abilities that made him one of the most dominant players of all time.

Statistically, the big man also has an overwhelming advantage. In a random survey of each player's peak in 10 years, Shaq's numbers impact on those of Kobe:

A second poll featured their playoff numbers in their three consecutive innings. If the first poll was a dunk, this one broke the panel:

But, as those of you who have followed this summer series "A vs. B" know, it is not easy to reach a conclusion but to publish the polls.

Instead, we will divide this confrontation into two categories: score, game construction, defense, overall impact and distinctions.

Hold your butt…

The former Indiana Pacers Jonathan Bender and Rik Smits have already explained the joys of Shaq's defense in an article from Washington PostKent Babb.

"It was all right to handle Shaq," said Bender. "… The first thing he caught above the free throw line and put him a body, even though it was impossible to do it, he was still going to go n '. no matter where he wanted to go.

"Put a body on him, just some kind of body on him, from there you can not really do anything anymore."

Although this has been the strategy for years, few (if any) organizations have been able to do much with Diesel.

"He was just crossing you," Smits said, "and he'll never have an offensive foul."

In the 2000 NBA Finals, when the Los Angeles Lakers beat the Pacers of Bits and Smits 4-2, Shaq scored 38.0 points, 16.7 rebounds, 2.7 blocks, 2.3 assists decisive and 1.0 interception. Michael Jordan (1993) and Rick Barry (1967) are the only the players in the history of the NBA who had more points in a final that lasted six games or less.

This series has undoubtedly been one of the highlights of Shaq 's career, but he has consistently figured among the most dominant markers of the game for more than a decade.

He averaged at least 20 points per game in each of his first 14 seasons, winning the goal titles in 1994-95 and 1999-2000. He also led the NBA as a percentage of goals scored in 10 of his 19 seasons.

If you combine his playoffs and his regular season games, he has staged 495 matches from another world with at least 20 points and a goal percentage of over 60%. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (523) was the only player to have more, and the distance between Shaq and 3rd Karl Malone (366) was about the same as that between Malone and 13th Kevin Garnett (236).

Nazr Mohammed, an 18-year-old NBA veteran, also had ideas about protecting Shaq. He shared them on the Tribune of the players:

"In the morning after you played Shaq, you always felt like you were fighting, you were painful from head to toe.

"It's probably not going to shock people, but Shaq was the most dominant big man I've ever met, he's in a class of his own.Shaq is the player who prevented me from sleeping." night wondering, "How on earth can I stop him?" Or, more realistically, slow it down because no one could stop him.

"… Honestly, Shaq could have earned a decisive pass just about every game of his career – I mean, the only way to protect him was to push or hold him, which was generally considered a mistake. He was punished for being stronger than his opponents, and if a defender stood there and took the shot, he could blame Shaq, sometimes being the loser in a battle for the position was rewarded.

"But the referees could not call the matches with Shaq the same way they called the other games, they simply could not, the opposing teams would have ruined all their big players in the middle of the second quarter. . "

There was really nothing that could be done to stop Shaq. Even when the league changed the rules to allow zone defenses, it continued to dominate.

"The NBA is for men, and an adult man does not need to play in the zone," O. Neal said before the rules came into effect. Illustrated SportsThat's Phil Taylor. "Why do you think they're calling from man to man? If you can not play it, you should not be here."

Over the next five years, a stretch that ended after his 33-year season, O Neal averaged 23.9 points. It seemed that time was the only factor that could slow down the big man.

If we go back to the peaks of the last 10 years mentioned in the blind polls, O Neal earned an average of 28.1 points per game, ranking first in the period under review, 1, 1 more than second place Allen Iverson. Kobe's 28.2 points per game on his 10-year high also ranked first, but they had only 0.1 ahead of Iverson.

Another way to consider the prowess of the score slightly favors Kobe. Shaq had a relative points average (player points per game minus league average for time) of plus-17.0 during his heyday. Kobe was over-17.2.

If we only look at the absolute peaks, it's also hard to ignore Kobe. In 2005-06, he averaged 35.4 points. This is the highest average in a season among all players registered between Michael Jordan's 37.1 in 1986-1987 and James Harden's 36.1 in 2018-19.

Of course, this season included Kobe's legendary 81-point game against the Toronto Raptors, which he discussed with ESPN's Arash Markazi:

"Lamar [Odom] was in my ear during a timeout telling me: "You can not be 60 years old." And then he came back after the next break and he said, "You can not be 70 years old". And at the next break, he just looked at me and said, "Oh God, get 80! I heard it, but I was not really paying attention. I was completely focused on what I was doing and I was in my own bubble. I have just attacked. "

Kobe's singular willingness to destroy his opponents is what made him such a nightmare to defend throughout his career, and it's never been as clear as this unforgettable performance.

He could score in different ways. He had a strong post-game match with a fadea that was in the same aesthetic field as Jordan's. He could attack the edge. He could hit dribbling tractions. He is even 15th in the history of the NBA in three career points, although his percentage of three points is 2.6 points lower than the league average throughout his career.

But if Kobe was the most skillful and versatile scorer, it's hard to say that he was better. No style points are awarded here, and there is no deduction for the irresistible physical benefits of Shaq.

If you take into account the effectiveness of the Shaq (the actual shooting percentages in the polls) with the other figures so close (average of the relative scores, rank in points per match on their peaks), the balance tips in favor the big player.

Shaq 1, Kobe 0

Believe it or not, Shaq is probably a bit underestimated as a smuggler and playmaker. Before players such as Kevin Garnett, Pau Gasol, Marc Gasol and Nikola Jokic come forward, the big men do not show up. were generally not renowned for their abilities to distribute.

Of course, there are outliers like Wilt Chamberlain (an outlier for everything), Alvan Adams, Tom Boerwinkle and Bill Walton. For decades, however, the greats were primarily known for their dominance.

But at the end of his 10-year high (2002-03 season), Shaq ranked seventh in the percentage of career assistants among seven-footers. During this peak, he averaged 3.0 assists per game and finished his career at 2.5.

These are respectable figures for a player who has done so much damage as a scorer, but they are not close to those of Kobe:

Of the 64 players in NBA history who have accumulated at least 20 points on average during their career, the 4.7 mentions Kobe assistance to 19th. His 10 seasons with at least 1,000 minutes and an average of 5.0 points and more rank among the top 30 of all time.

None of these players will be known for their defeat, but Bryant certainly did a little more than Shaq.

Shaq 1, Kobe 1

If we simply examine the praise achieved through a subjective voting process such as All-Defensive selections, Kobe will win this game in a landslide. After all, he had received 12 defense rattles throughout his career. Shaq was only three.

But these selections were made at a less informed time analytically, and Shaq clearly had more competition for his position. He played at the same time as all-time defensemen David Robinson, Hakeem Olajuwon, Dikembe Mutombo and Ben Wallace.

Statistically, he has a considerable advantage over Kobe.

The more / less defensive box has its faults (Basketball Reference "Look at the defensive values ​​as a guide, but do not hesitate to ignore them when a player is deemed to be a good or bad defender "), but the advantage of Shaq is huge: 1.6 at least-0.6

In addition, the play-by-play data, dating back to the 2000-01 season, also confirm Shaq's claim to this category. According to the PBPS, from 2000-2001 to 2003-2004 (their last season together), the Lakers awarded 104.94 points for 100 possessions while Kobe was down without Shaq.tats.com. When Shaq was down without Kobe, L.A. yielded 102.08 points for 100 possessions.

In the next three seasons, the Lakers dropped 1.91 points per 100 possessions when Kobe was in the game. At the same time, the Miami Heat was 0.65 points lower for every 100 possessions when Shaq was on the ground, and the center of the Hall of Fame was approaching the twilight of his career.

In addition to all this, we have not yet mentioned Shaq's prowess as a firing blocker and defensive rebounder.

During his 10-year high, his 2.5 blocks per game ranked seventh. For his career, he is 15th.

His 8.0 defensive rebounds per game ranked fifth in those 10 years. His career rank is 23rd. And as many coaches would tell you, defensive possession will not be over until you recover the rebound.

Despite his considerable deficit in the All-Defensive selections, Shaq was the most powerful defender.

Shaq 2, Kobe 1

Once again, read-only data go back only to the 2000-01 season. Although most of its capital is not taken into account, Shaq still has a comfortable advantage in terms of net valuation (difference between the net points of a team for 100 possessions when a player is on the ground or on the ground).

From 2000-01 to the end of Shaq's career, the net scores of his teams were 7.7 points higher when he was on the ground. Kobe's net career score is over-5.6.

If we go back to the four seasons for which we have data and these two people were teammates (2000-2001 to 2003-2004), the Lakers had an advantage of more than 5.27 points for 100 possessions when Shaq was down without Kobe. They were less than 2.33 points for 100 possessions when Kobe was on the ground without Shaq.

A handful of catch-all statistics also leans towards the big man:

One or two slight benefits for Shaq could be explained, but this evidence clearly indicates a direction.

Shaq 3, Kobe 1

Few players in NBA history can face Kobe Bryant in a longevity battle, and Shaq is not in fact a part of it.

Here is the list of praise accumulated by the two men during their career:

• Shaquille O & # 39; Neal: 15-time All-Star, 14-time All-NBA, four-time NBA Champion, Three-time MVP Finals, Three-time MVP All-Star, Three-time All-Defenseman, Two-time top scorer, 1999- 00 MVP, rookie of the year 1992-93
• Kobe Bryant: 18-star, 15-time NBA, five-time NBA champion, two-time MVP finals, four-time MVP of the stars, 12-time All-Defensive, two scoring goals, 2007- 08 MVP

Some reject these achievements when they discuss legacies of all time. In the end, they are subjective. And at least in the case of star appearances, popularity is an important factor.

But they are good indicators of the position of a player in the league and Kobe was almost at the top for more than a decade.

Oh, and he won an Oscar.

Shaq 3, Kobe 2

During the interview with Valuetainment, Kobe was asked: "Who would be Shaq if he had your work ethic?"

"He would be the best of all time," he replied.

Despite legitimate questions about Shaq's training, he is perhaps the most physically dominant player we've ever seen. As Bender, Smits and Mohammed explained, there was no real solution for dealing with Shaq during games.

The answer is pretty clear: Kobe is one of the best goalkeepers in NBA history, but he just did not have an impact on matches at the same level as Shaq.

The best question regarding these two questions probably concerns what could have been. Kobe may have thrown "12 ringtones" rather quickly in this interview, but the way these two people complemented each other on the ground was almost perfect.

In terms of pure talent, it is difficult to find many better duos.