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It's time to talk about the Avengers: Endgame spoilers.
Admittedly, the Marvel epic may have amassed a record $ 2 billion box office, but what about decisions made in the film that will forever affect the status of Marvel's Cinematic Universe? What exceptional moments aroused the enthusiasm of fans and what is the fan service?
Variety spoke to the writing duo who spent more than a decade trying to close this chapter of the MCU, Stephen McFeely and Christopher Markus, and supported them on all the burning questions raised in "Endgame".
WARNING: If you still have not seen "Avengers: Endgame", go no further. This conversation is full of Marvel spoilers.
This is not the first Marvel movie you've worked on. "Avengers: Endgame" was he the one you are most afraid of fighting? Tell me about the trip to get to Endgame.
Stephen McFeely: We were nervous at the time because it was such a big project. It would take so much time in our lives and it would be the biggest puzzle that we could organize as a writer. It was scary and we agreed, we should probably do scary things and if successful, it could be really amazing.
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Christopher Markus: We knew it would never happen again. For someone to offer you the outcome of this great company, this will never happen again. And as painful and sometimes painful as it is already four and a half years that we are working on it, it will never happen again. Getting out of there would seem to be something you're really going to get into later.
When did you decide which character was going to die before "Infinity War"? How much of this decision stems from "This is the story we want to tell" versus "Yeah … Robert [Downey Jr.] is made."
McFeely: Both films were designed and sketched together. We did not start writing "Infinity War" until we knew what was the end of "Endgame" and it's a conversation that takes place mainly with Kevin [Feige], Trinh Tran, Anthony and Joe Russo and us. In general, how does one play the characters? And I do not know if the finances or the actors really contributed to it. What we were trying to do was direct what was best for the characters. We felt that this meant that some characters might end because they made an ultimate sacrifice and that was the end of the trip for them.
Markus: I think part of the reason why people find this so emotionally satisfying is that it's about characters who had been on paths during the saga of 22 movies and that these paths required an end. This is not a situation where you can release a James Bond movie every two years, where you just want it to go on, because that's what it does.
These people started in a place that had problems that needed to be solved and were fully completed. So, it's really the legitimate and appropriate end for them. I think if we had kept Tony alive or if we had killed Cape, that would have been wrong.
Let's decompose some of the most important scenes. First, all Marvel women who run together on the battlefield: "She has help." Where does this idea come from and who proposed it?
Markus: We have been on this topic for so long, it is quite difficult to propose specific ideas to a person right now. We had such an embarrassment of riches in this whole sequence. How do you not do that just a blur of people? So we've found ways to separate some units so you can focus. And Marvel fans, more and more, with every movie, [have] got these great female characters. Some people may call it looting but it's also like we have tons of shots from all men. Why not try all women and they are so cool? It just looked like, "Let's celebrate this!"
McFeely: I remember the day we fired, all the women on the team and in the offices went down and started tinkering behind the cameras. It was perhaps the most moving part for me, how important it was for everyone to see it.
How did they react?
McFeely: They were pumped. There were a lot of circumstances pumped around him. I agree with Chris. We have certainly thought long and hard about whether this has been won. We really wanted to win most of these moments and not just a delicious piece of candy for fans. Honestly, it made me nervous and sometimes we talked about it: "We keep it? We do not keep it?
And almost all of us have said, even me, "My God. I prefer to see him. I would prefer that it be in there and there be a big conversation, and some people will not think we won it. Everyone wanted to leave it in the movie.
Fans are asking for a 100% female movie only since pictures of all actresses have been published online. However, some people seem divided at that time in "Endgame". When you give fans what they want, what risk do you run with the fact that you are called fan service or pandering? And that being said, some critics argue that this fan service is good.
Markus: Oh, of course. These films would be non-existent without the fans. So, you know, a movie designed to frustrate fans seems a little suicidal.
People say "fan service" as if you were going to a niche. I mean, we've all seen the numbers that these movies do. The fans are the majority at this stage. The fan service only honors previous stories. It's not like we're taking out a little Easter egg that only three people will get. It's just tying the wires; it takes up the nuances that were abandoned earlier. I do not see this as a kind of niche writing.
Now that fans have tasted a fully female Marvel moment, do you think the studio would one day realize an MCU feature entirely based on a group of women?
McFeely: Listen We are no longer working at Marvel ….
Markus: God knows what they are planning.
McFeely: Certainly, representation is extremely important to them in the future, and has been for some time. Then maybe? It may be a fat fat.
Let's talk about the "Hail Hydra" scene. In addition to the time reserved for women, the fans were crazy about Captain America who reconstructed the scene of the lifts of "The Winter Soldier".When did you know that you would come back?
Markus: By plundering our past to understand the fractions of time travel, we had at one time considered returning to the Triskelion, which is the big building of "Winter Soldier", because the mental stone was there. That's when the concept is born. When we went to Stark Tower, everyone loved leaving it there. So we moved it. But you do not want to do the same thing again. I mean, it was the challenge for all the second act: how to revisit the "greatest hits" while giving them a new twist every time so that it is not a show of clips? We could not go back to the elevator and fight another fight, so how do we get out of the fight?
At the passage of the shield, Cape could give his shield to two people: Falcon (Sam Wilson) and Winter Soldier (Bucky Barnes), and these two people were in the same scene.
Markus: Two of them picked up [the shield] in comics; Bucky and Sam. But when you look at "The First Avenger" and realize why he was chosen to be the first super soldier, it's a certain purity of heart and some inner heroism. It's pretty hard to give to Bucky. Even if we love him, he is on the path of darkness and is recovering from it. Sam is really a guy really standing up. It was certainly not an extremely difficult choice. I think Bucky has a lot more history as a Bucky and as someone on the path to the atonement. And Sam has entered this new role.
McFeely: Right. What brings me the most is that it's much better for their two stories this way. Certainly Bucky having the shield would provide a lot of history. I do not know if that gives Sam a lot of history. And again, there's a coming streaming show, right? And I do not know what they do, but Sam having Captain America's coat, what he thinks about it, and Bucky working or having some kind of relationship with Hydra, I think it's pretty rich. Again, especially because Bucky has to deal with the past of mind control. Captain America has always represented the best of the idea of America, you know? And give it to an African American guy … it's great. Do not congratulate us, I just say it indicates a better America.
Again, I do not know what they will do with that [in the streaming series]but what about Sam? Sam is his own superhero. He has his own identity. What does it mean to be struggling with the identity of another guy? Do you kiss it? Do you reject him? You can work with a lot of good metaphors.
Markus: Exactly. What does he take by becoming "the symbol of the country"? That's what keeps the idea of Captain America fresh, right?
Let's go on. Let's write this Disney Plus series now! Quick question: did you write in the script "Bucky approves of the head", implying that it is cool with the death?
McFeely: Yes. Yes.
McFeely: We assume Steve and he had a long conversation before Steve came back.
Captain America has been a huge part of your life for a long time. Why is it time for Steve Rogers to remove his shield?
Markus: Steve Rogers has … boy, he's done everything you can do. He is over 100 years old … I think he is over 100 years old. He fought World War II and the Civil War and a war in the infinite. He went through three wars. I think he has come to a place where he realizes that he is a complete human being, which is all of our goals. It must take a little time and be healthier. I think when he … in a way, when he finds his old self in Avengers Tower, he is in a head that is treated so well, he's a really intense guy and maybe not healthy. So, I think it's time.
McFeely: We realized early on that … and we've been helping this for a few years now, that Tony and Steve were sort of crisscrossed. This film, film by film, was becoming … had a more macro vision, becoming more altruistic. And Steve was getting a little more interested. The civil war is a good example. So we hung on the wall at one point, Tony becomes a complete person when he loses his life and Steve, a complete person when he gets one. We drove towards that.
Now more specific questions: Who is the kid at the funeral?
Markus: It's Harley, the boy with whom Tony Stark has bonded, helped him and left a legacy at the end of "Iron Man 3." He has grown a lot.
Why was actress Katherine Langford separated from "Avengers: Endgame"?
Markus: Ah … It was … that … it … it did not work in the finale, it kills the momentum of the rest of the film.
McFeely: And she was great.
Markus: Yeah. She was great. It was just a kind of ruminative scene at a time when you really wanted to be on the plot. And as much as … and also, because of the nature we are going through, we can not move. This is not a scene that could be said: "Let's try at first." It only has narrative meaning, but it did not make sense. So, you just had to go.
Of all the television characters to be included in the MCU, you chose Jarvis in "Agent Carter". Why him?
McFeely: Well, for a very small part of the audience who watched Agent Carter, it did not take a big jump. And if you caught who he was, so much the better. If you have not done it, fine. It's a little different to put the defenders in the final battle. It's a lot of people that you will scratch your head if you do not subscribe to Netflix.
Markus: And there is also a good continuity for his character, in that he was the right arm of Peggy Carter. He was Howard's butler. Tony's mentor, respectively. Tony named the AI who later became Vision after him. More than any of the other characters on the television, he really fit into the continuum and he would have been there at that time. It's not like we have to go out of their way.
How long did you know that the last words of Iron Man would become the famous "I am Iron Man"?
McFeely: Oh, late. We did not understand it late. In fact, it's a new shoot. We tried a lot of things, they were not so good. And we sort of … actually, I do not know if Thanos said what he said, but it became a matter of rhythm. When he says, "I am inevitable," he must somehow deny him something. Sometimes we try to avoid the fruits at hand. It seemed very obvious and we resisted it. But he felt perfect. So we went back there.
What was the best ad lib line on the set? Was there a ad lib moment in this movie?
Markus: Oh, of course.
McFeely: But then, when we tell you, you'll be a little less impressed by us.
Markus: I will say, I think it was an ad lib because I do not remember it. I loved every time Scott Lang [Paul Rudd] runs to his old house and finds his [previously] Cassie, her 5 year old daughter. After their big emotional hug, he pulls her up and says, "You're so big." What I do not think we wrote. That's what you tell children when you have not seen them for a long time. But it takes a weird sense when you look at the context, [it] I was very pleased.
How is it possible for Gamora to come back, but not Black Widow? Since they've both been killed by the soul stone.
Markus: It is not the Gamora killed by the soul stone, it is the Gamora of the past. When Gamora came out of this cliff, the Gamora of that period are dead. But that's the Gamora from the front. So, she is still alive, she has traveled in the time machine to the present. You know, like you.
McFeely: As you do.
If they took Black Widow from another scenario, you say it would have had an impact on his future, possibly? Or she could not have sacrificed herself for that?
Markus: Well, it was a strangely selfish decision. In fact, we are going to kidnap a version of Black Widow that knows nothing about the current situation and take it in the future so that we can have one. This is not really asking her if she wants to go there.
Also, does this mean that Thor is without Mjolnir for most "Thor 2"?
Markus: I guess technically, even if Steve would go back and erase this timeline by returning the stone to the moment it was taken. To do it, you have to get it back from Natalie Portman. I do not know, but the idea is that the timeline would be erased, according to the old.
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