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The following is a transcript of an interview with Admiral Mike Mullen, former chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, which aired Sunday, July 18, 2021 on “Face the Nation”.
JOHN DICKERSON: For a look at this episode and the questions it raises, we turn to a man who held this post before him, the former Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Admiral Mike Mullen, who is joining us. from Hilliard, Ohio. Hello, admiral.
FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE JOINT HEADS OF STAFF ADM. MIKE MULLEN: Hello, JEAN. It’s good to be with you.
JOHN DICKERSON: It’s good to have you here. You were chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. What do you think of this episode?
SMA. MULLEN: Well, I think the reports, from what I understand, have been pretty specific, pretty chaotic, especially after the election and the two threats you mentioned, the external threat, and if so or not we would start some sort of fight or conflict with Iran and then internal in terms of leadership, particularly in regards to how the military would be used by President Trump to validate in some way or another. other than the election was actually a fraud and keep the president in power. I think this is all very specific and obviously incredibly disturbing, literally in every way.
JOHN DICKERSON: And it’s fair to say that you don’t train for those kinds of contingencies with a commander-in-chief.
SMA. MULLEN: No you don’t know, although I think General Milley and others who have served for the last four years would tell you that the environment has been very chaotic, very difficult to predict what was to come. passing day to day and super concern about the possibility that some of the orders that might come to the military, which will generally follow the advice of the president and certainly directly to a combat commander in the case of Iran, would go to central command . And so the president had in this case, General Milley, I thought, really did the right thing on both fronts, quite frankly. I don’t think he was alone when it came to Iran. But I think on the internal potential of a coup really, really stood up, did the right thing, and I think he argued that he was the right officer to have in the right post. at the right time in a – in a very, very difficult, amazing and unprecedented situation.
JOHN DICKERSON: Help us distinguish between a conflict of garden varieties between a chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and a chairman. And what we’re talking about here, because I know President Obama wrote in his book that he had a difficult conversation with you before. It’s you, that’s what’s going on in this job. But that’s something very different from what Millie worried about. Right.
SMA. MULLEN: Absolutely, every president during the four years that he’s been there has enormous challenges, and so you get into very, very hard and passionate debates about what is recommended or what is going to be done in a given situation. But at the end of the day, you know, the president and the military leadership, once the president makes a decision, you know, we execute it. There is no discussion about this. In that case, you know, clearly, if President Trump had decided to use the military against the American people and somehow create an opportunity for the president to stay in place, it rubs or in fact it’s unconstitutional, what the military serves, as opposed to the president, and could be seen as an illegal, immoral, or unethical order, in which case, you know, General Milley and the rest of the military leadership, the other four stars, in my opinion, would be required to resist or, if unable to resist, to resign.
JOHN DICKERSON: One of the defining moments for General Milley was the President’s walk through Lafayette Park, in which General Milley marched with him, freeing the protesters for a photo op. You wrote that you did not mention the Trump administration in an article in The Atlantic and that you said you were concerned that the military would be used for political purposes. It was a turning point for you and for General Milley. I guess my point is this: these episodes of his book were part of a growing trend. This is not just what happened at the end of the Trump administration. You – YOU were afraid of the politicization of the military long before that.
SMA. MULLEN: I do and I do and I continue to have them even now, because the political environment is so intense and so divided and we have to work hard to make sure that the military is not part of what is politicized. in this country, I think regarding Lafayette Park. General Milley spoke publicly very quickly thereafter and readily admitted that he had made a big mistake when it came to literally June until January 6, when Milley really started to worry about what was possible. Its antenna was up. He knew what to do. He knew he knew how to do it, as best we could understand it, and what a very, very fluid situation was. And then he performed accordingly. So I think he more than made up for this mistake he made around Lafayette Square.
JOHN DICKERSON: All right. Admiral Mike Mullen, thank you very much for being with us and helping us put this into context. We really appreciate this. And we’ll come back in a moment.
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