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On the last episode of Swivel with Kara Swisher and Scott GallowayKara and Scott talked about some of the biggest stories of the week, including the massive security breach of Facebook and the result of Kavanaugh's long hearings. But they have a lot to say about Tesla's CEO, Elon Musk, who is stepping down as president and will pay a $ 20 million fine to the SEC, while Tesla will pay himself an additional $ 20 million.
The need to fulfill the role of president could mean that the supervision of an adult is on the way. But Galloway congratulated current board members for not restricting Musk's social media activity before tweeting that he had "secured" the necessary financing for Tesla to be privatized (he did not do it).
"Although we are a nation of innovators, we are also a nation of laws, and this guy waved to us when he made a blatant market manipulation," Galloway said.
"It's not just a personal failure, it's a failure of governance," he added. "The task of the board is to hire and fire the CEO, but until they are removed from office, they are supposed to be there to support and protect him. And the fact that none of the members of this forum could contact him to say, "Hey, shit, stop tweeting" – or [no one] that he would listen to – means that he has an extremely weak board of directors. "
You can listen Swivel with Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway wherever you get your podcasts – including Apple podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Pocket Casts and Overcast.
Below we have shared the complete transcript of the last episode of Kara and Scott.
Kara Swisher: Hello everyone! It is a hub of Vox Media's podcast network. I am Kara Swisher, Editor-in-Chief of Recode.
Scott Galloway: And I'm Scott Galloway, marketing professor at the NYU Stern School of Business and founder of Gartner L2, and also a little Elon of Kara … No, I'm sorry, I'm the Kimbal, you're the Elon. . I am here because of the cowboy hat and because you like me well. Let's be honest.
Kara Swisher: Yes, that's all. That's about all, except 100% fewer marijuana smokers. But we were talking a little earlier this week than usual, things could change by the time everyone hears that except at: Scott. Sage predictor of the results, what will happen this week that will haunt the world of technology and business for months? Let's start with the big topic.
Yeah. Facebook, the data breach. Qu & # 39; do you hear? What is skinny?
Well, I think it's way worse than people – you know, it's really interesting, Kavanaugh sort of throws it all in there. And if you can imagine that such a big data breach is not such a big deal, people are overtaking it, because the news cycle is so crazy. It's a little fascinating. I think it's a major problem. Once again, Mark Zuckerberg apologized. He said he would do better next time. I think it was problematic. To my knowledge.
Yeah. You know, the only thing you know about this is that the situation will only get worse. Right? These people never say that 1) your privacy standards have been accidentally reinforced. You never hear that. And 2) you never hear, "Oh, it was not as bad as we originally reported."
I understand that he has already gone out a second time and that he looked tired. And I feel that he should not have that feeling. He should look scared. This has just started … you know, I wrote an article on this blog. I have the impression that Facebook is in the process of switching to the information age, the KGB less its charm. At least the KGB has a code. They are faithful to their country. They are loyal to each other. As far as I can tell, the only glue that hides here is boundless greed and a willingness to lie again and again. Is it too much, Kara? Is it too much?
Yes, that's it, but here's the problem, last week you called it a "good buy".
This is the saddest part. I still think that's it.
Because what? Explain this to people.
Because we live in a capitalist economy and people would prefer that we venerate now on the altar of innovators and billionaires. People will be outraged by this. There will be a bit of footprint in Congress. Maybe something happens, maybe it will not be. And they will announce the best figures of all time. They will continue to grow at 30% per year.
Despite this hacking and the scandal of phone numbers too. Explain this. Explain that they used your phone numbers to …
So two-factor authentication, "I want additional security." Facebook says, "All right, give us your phone number." You give them your phone number and then we discovered that Dunkin Donuts used these numbers to cross references and targets. we. Dunkin Donuts has your phone number. They can say, "Hey, we have Kara's phone number. Can you? Do you have it? "And they say," Oh yes, we have it. "So, these people, I mean technically, you think it's not this bad but it reflects …
Oh God, are you kidding? I did not want to give them my phone number for that. I gave it so that I could have better security on this service that has a data breach, basically.
Exactly. It's a general gestalt. You know they say, the saying goes: "If you do not pay for something, you are the product". And that's how they treat us. They treat us as an inanimate product. And they just do not show a certain level of respect, I think, towards their consumers.
So, from one … look, hacks are part of this world. There is nothing sure, really. The fact is that this is a company that has had so many failures this year that it is difficult to count them for the moment. And so, a hack is … You know, before people were online, they said, "It's like the Russians." I was like: "No, the Russians were not a hack, they were like that using the system the way it was used. It's a hack."
What do you do from a marketing point of view inside Facebook when this happens?
Well the key to managing the crisis[ment] … There are only three things to remember: 1) Recognize the problem: "We did not put in place the standards or the safeguards, the protections, we should have"; 2) The guy or the girl has to assume his responsibilities, they have somehow done it; and then the third thing is overcorrecting. And it's there that they have really Since nothing looks like an overcorrection, because … even if they were taking a page from the Starbucks game book, they would say, "Okay, we shut down the network for a day and just try to understand what is happening. they would never do it in a million years.
Never do that. Yes, absolutely.
What will remain – whatever the fate of Facebook – will eventually become a classic case study in the worst management of a crisis, I think, of modern history. What do you think they do?
Do you think … I think that they do not think in any way whatsoever. I am surprised that the mirrors of Facebook show their faces. You know what I mean? They are like vampires, they do not think.
It was a good one.
I'm trying that one on the road.
It's as if you saw this "twilight zone" when people saw their reflection knowing that they were about to die?
Oh really? No!
Yes, start watching "The Twilight Zone". A) I told you last week, start drinking more, and B) watch "The Twilight Zone".
I do not watch "The Twilight Zone", it scares me. I do not want to be scared.
Ah, that's great!
I have enough scary things in my life. So in general, these people do not do it, I know it's as if they continue, but as usual, they feel like victims. They act as victims as opposed to … It's a bit like the Kavanaugh. They say to themselves, "Oh, we are under attack." Rather than tackling a very important job. I think it's really disturbing that they have the attitude of being attacked.
And to what you said earlier, Mark was the gift that was left – was really the heat shield of the rest of the technology because of his mute remarks, when you can assert that Google is probably the biggest offender, the most scary. And now, Kavanaugh is Zuckerberg's heat shield, as it would have been huge The news had 20 million people who were not listening to know how much Kavanaugh liked beer.
Beer. Love beer.
So it's … it's …
I think Mark likes beer.
They are the luckiest people in the world right now. I wonder if it will stay that way.
Yes, we will see. Because I think people have …
I wonder if it will start to bubble.
Exhausted by that. Now, speaking of that, speaking of CEOs, they are somehow losing their brilliance, because you think that they are worshiping on the altar of billionaires. I think it's going in the opposite direction: you have Elon Musk moving in with the SEC.
Yes, and I have just what I read. Do you know something here?
I do.
Do you have behind the scenes what happened between the board members, Elon, what's going on here? Because initially, they rejected the first colony.
They did it. And then they did not do it. I think some of them were, some terms were, some of the light ones were heavier, which was not CEOs and things like that. And I think he wanted to stay CEO and he was certainly willing to accept someone from higher to him because he was really running the company anyway, right?
Yep.
And I think he's just, I think he probably figured out how bad it would be and what happened to the stock, he collapsed. I think they are also looking at good numbers, as if the financial situation of this company was starting to recover. Even if they have to, I mean, a lot of really amazing stories about the financial situation in which the country is, that they are over-indebted. They use about $ 1 billion a month in capital, something like that, and I think they only have $ 3 billion left over or …
And so I think that they are showing good signs that it is starting to work and that they are starting to make money on these cars. And so, I think they did not, this idea of throwing the dice at this stage was probably not good. And I think that adding more people to the board will be interesting. It's just that I never think that boards of directors are particularly effective against these charismatic CEOs. I do not know, I think he had a moment to come to Jesus.
Yes, it's a smart business for him. C & # 39; was. That would have been a good settlement if the SEC had done it, it deprived him of the wrong title. Frankly, he should have been deprived of his title of CEO.
Yeah. No, he would not have decided to do it.
He's an individual … well, so he can not stand, again, I'm not sure I agree with that. Where is he going? Will he go to Ford CEO Fiat Chrysler? I think Musk needs Tesla almost as much as Tesla needs Musk. And the bottom line is that, although we are a nation of innovators, we are also a nation of laws, and this guy stirred us the major when he basically committed a blatant manipulation of the market and then tried to ask the advice to administer his … cover his …
From what I understand, he does not think he has done anything wrong. People inside think that he has not done anything. He thought he had met the Saudis and the Saudis, he took them at his word, and that made him a little deliberately naive, but he thought that he had practically reached an agreement. That they were interested and that he had had several other meetings that had been talked about and that he thought that it was more in depth than what he was and that he was. he had obviously misunderstood people … That's what I understand from the inside, that is, he thought he had an agreement so he did not think he had done anything wrong. He just wanted to tell all his investors that when he was talking to the biggest investors, that's their story and they stick to it.
Yes, I agree that their story.
Yeah, well. It is not beyond possibility that he thinks he has an agreement. I must say, I think he hears, I think he hears, you know, I think these people hear what they want to hear. And I think he just assumed that he would be able to convince the Saudis to spit out the dough. And you know, it does not matter if he paid $ 20 million for a tweet, that's about it. Like, I mean, what is a huge amount. Who said that Twitter could not make money? I mean … the federal government …
Yes, okay, but everything is relative, right? It's $ 20 million from a man who started crying because he was almost late for his brother's wedding because his Gulfstream 650ER did not get him there in time. It's a guy who is worth $ 20 billion. So, imagine that you get a fine … OK, I'll do it, a thousandth of my the total net worth is not a big fine.
Right.
So, all of this is relative. 20 million to the company, agree, big problem. The most important thing here is the one you mentioned, two new independent directors. Because it's not just a personal failure, it's a failure of governance. The board's job is to hire and fire the CEO, but until they are removed from office, they are supposed to be there to support and protect him. And the fact that none of the members of this forum could say, "Hey, shit, stop tweeting" – or [no one] that he would listen to – means that he has an extremely weak board of directors. And I do not know if you saw the tour without charm that his brother Kimbal …
No, I did not see the tour without charm.
He continued on CNBC? But that has literally validated your worst fears about Tesla's board of directors. I mean, it's a guy who's introduced to CNBC in a cowboy hat. It made no sense, it's okay, there is literally no adult supervision in this business.
Kimbal Musk on CNBC: My brother is doing very well and he has just appointed Jerome to the position of president of the operations council. He does a great job structuring the business. For now, it's mostly for deliveries. We are trying to get very satisfied customers with Model 3 in their hands and this is the main goal. And it will be an exciting month for us.
I think the question is who will they choose and who will they choose as president. Which should be interesting. I have ideas There are, you know …
Who are your ideas? I also have ideas.
Indra Nooyi would be interesting.
It's an excellent … from Pepsi. This is an excellent project that was on my list.
Oh sorry. Gary Cohn of Goldman.
Boom! Gary Cohn from Goldman?
Yes I like that. Think about it.
Basically, the type of Trump administration who did not know how to manage people, who could to treat the white nationalists but could not handle the tariffs?
Good …
This guy?
Well, he does not have …
"It's all, fares, I'm out of here!"
No, anyway, it would be, I think it would be an interesting choice. This is one of the names. What are your names?
I liked your … the CEO of Pepsi. I'm thinking of Jeffrey Sonnenfeld from the Yale School of Management. I think Jeffrey is becoming a little aware of capitalism and that he would be a great individual.
It will not happen.
No not true?
It's not going to happen. Someone else?
What about Mark Fields, CEO of Ford?
No.
Former CEO of … agree, I went out. I'm done.
I've tried Alan Mulally, but I think that they thought it was too old-fashioned … [Mulally] ran Ford and was then to Boeing. He certainly has the chops but they think he's too old-schooled.
I have it.
But I love Alan Mulally. He is very funny … anyway. So, basically, Elon has passed, it will be okay.
Well, that's the problem, it … you can literally imagine a scenario where nothing has changed in six months.
Ok, Scott, the Supreme Court and women in general, not having a good week. But tell me who's your win of the week. I want something positive. I want something positive. Who has a good week?
I think Senator Jeffrey Flake became the viable candidate for the presidency last week.
Flake? What? Really?
Yeah.
I thought of Amy Klobuchar. I thought Amy Klobuchar would come out of your mouth. Versus Jeffrey Flake?
But no one was expecting Jeffrey. I think that he showed real leadership here. I think of the image of him sitting in the elevator and listening to this woman. I mean, it's a … he was in …
He looked scared. Come on, Scott, he seemed to be terrified by a little woman.
And I like that.
She was screaming at him.
I like that.
Yeah?
He did not say …
D & # 39; agreement.
He did not say …
What's he going to do? Press the close button?
He did not say, he did not say, "This is an inappropriate way to handle this, let's go to my office." He sat and took it. And then he listened and I think that he was truly moved. And then, it's a guy who, hopefully, has brought something that these guys are supposed to do: create a bipartisan consensus, deal with each other and respect each other.
Unless it's a sham. Everyone says it's … he's done them a favor by letting them lead the investigation.
Yeah, there's a bunch of … of course, we're worried it's just a trick and it's not really an investigation.
A thing. It's a trick. A trick, yes.
I think Jeffrey Flake had the best week of all the people I could think of. Other than Elon Musk.
I must say …
Which basically dodged not even a bullet. He dodged a mortar.
Yes, I think Jeff Flake, his name is perfectly chosen. I totally disagree with you. I think it was only weak, most of the time. And I'm glad he did that, but it's like he's getting a medal for doing his job. You know what I mean? He's the only non-crazy Republican who wants to show … like Lindsey Graham and his giant club.
Oh my God, it was crazy! It was actually, I thought it was rather amusing. By the way, Flake really has the # 1 criteria for any president. He really has beautiful hair.
Oh, he has beautiful hair.
He has beautiful hair.
This is a very handsome man.
He is handsome. He is dreamer.
Here is the thing.
He is dreamer.
Scott, I do not want to hear about your favorites.
Hashtag Flake.
I do not want to … Come on.
I am going to raise money for him and I am a hardcore hardcore.
Not that there is something wrong but it's enough, okay?
D & # 39; agreement.
I think it's Amy Klobuchar. I'll give another win of the week but Amy Klobuchar, I thought, did very well.
Yes, agree.
good [Kavanaugh] attacked her ridiculously and she did not throw a shoe at his head. I thought she was busy in class, then she continued and talked about it. I think she has the kind of unbiased mentality that you want a little in a legislator. The question is, could she come up against someone like Trump who will scream after her?
I do not think the Democrats will propose another woman. I think they're worried that … I think they're going to end … I do not think they have the backbone to push a woman up front. I think it's a shame.
We will see. We will see. She is different, she is different.
She is very strong. She feels like VP. She feels as if she has the vice president writing on it.
I do not know. I like it for Prez.
Yeah.
I like it for Prez. My win of the week is Jeff Bezos with the $ 15 trick.
Good one!
He just dropped this one. I know you're all over him, but it was a good decision on his part.
Clever.
I called him the genius of the tycoon … he still manages to do it. Like, always do something. How can you argue with you when Bernie Sanders tweeted for him, which was such a surprise. I know that they have been under a lot of pressure on these prices. But he's paving the way for everyone to … he'll have the best employees with … And some people think the minimum wage should go up even more than $ 15, but it's a pretty daring decision, I think.
This is a good move and not only that, but it is a blow by the shareholders because it will force their competitors to do the same.
Right.
Who can offer 15 dollars an hour better than Amazon? Nobody, that's the answer.
Right.
Even at Walmart, on average, I think about $ 11.50 for some of their warehouse workers, so what Amazon did was Amazon's biggest free oxygen tank of free capital and forced everyone to follow them and all the others drowns.
Mostly.
They could potentially do the same thing here and put pressure on all retailers for that they increase their minimum wage to $ 15 an hour. So, it was not just the right thing to do, it was the smart thing to do.
Mm hmm. It was, and it was interesting, what Amazon does, and I do not think people realize that they are installing moats on everything. They have always built ditches.
Yeah.
That people can not cross. And this is another. It's really … people can match it, but they are the first ones. They get a credit for that. And then it's just one thing, the data gap is a gap in customer service, it's a quick thing. I just lived in a second home in Dc. And I live here. I must tell you that I tried to shop at retail. I've tried to shop in stores, and there are great stores in the neighborhood I am in, but Amazon is so easy and so good.
The other night, I was trying to find a porter for my son and I could not find it … I went to six stores. It was so frustrating, then I watched Prime. I was standing at the bus stop and Prime Now could have bought it in two hours and I had it. That's what I had and it was $ 30 and it was shocking to see how easy it was to do it. And that was exactly what I wanted, that is … I'm thinking of writing a column about it because everything I could get at home from Amazon.
I stopped listening …
I hated it for almost.
I stopped listening when you said "second home in DC". I just can not imagine you in DC. I just do not see it.
I like it a lot here. I'm going to have dinner … talking about that, I had dinner sitting next to the Walmart chef and he's certainly worried about, I can not say, it was an informal dinner at the business roundtable, but I think he's also worried about Amazon. And they are trying very hard to intensify it. And they did it in many ways.
That's Doug McMillon?
Yes, Doug McMillon. Very intelligent guy.
And in fact …
It's an awesome guy.
By the way, Walmart is probably the only company to launch counterattacks on Amazon. Click and collect, it's probably … If you think about the ability to recover. That's the genius of Walmart, what's the best thing about Walmart? It's their grocery store. What is the worst thing about this? Their experience in store. So click and pick up their shopping, boom! Nice experience.
Yes, he does a lot of things, but I still think it's going to be difficult. It was actually … I think they were speculating on the price, the cost, the cost of the employees. And that will put them in … they will have to do something around their associates. You know, they all have more or less success with that, but it's certainly … but having been in a lot of these stores this week, it's really amazing how much …
They are bad.
… their customer service is in the stores. I was in the target. I was at Best Buy.
It's tough.
Other.
Best Buy is pretty good with blue shirts.
Best Buy was great. I was just going to say that. It was really an excellent customer service.
I think Home Depot does a great job with their gold aprons. And as you know, everyone is hurrying to move to invest in artificial intelligence. I think the movement of gangsters in the retail business is investing in organic intelligence, as evidenced by what Amazon does.
Yes.
People no longer go to the stores to buy products. They go for people.
Yes. 100 per cent.
Whether Sephora or what you have. You know what? It is truly a moment of hope, because if you look at the tension of capital or that of the owners and the workforce of workers, there is always a tension that has been healthy since the Second World War. And in the last 30 years, the work has been put aside. So hopefully this is the beginning of something where we are starting to see some of this incredible increase in productivity. These trillions of dollars and wealth creation are finally starting to settle in the middle class and the workers.
Let's hope, Kara, that the time is right and that it starts to infect …
So do you like Bezos now after eviscerating?
Well, you know a man, a man who is worth more than Denmark's GDP and raises the minimum wage to $ 15 an hour, yeah, let's make it a bloody party. Anyway, so listen, I hope, give credit where it is needed. And not only that he was great about it.
Yes I did.
Have you seen that? He retweeted his tweet thanking Senator Sanders.
Why would he not say thank you to Senator Sanders? I think the President, President Bezos.
Clever. He is intelligent.
I start right away.
He is intelligent. There is going to be a big break between him and Senator Sanders, I'm just going to be so uncomfortable and disgusting.
[Bernie Sanders voice] "Jeff, I really like Prime Now, I think it's really good. It's really good. "
I did not know you borrowed imitations.
I could do anyone.
It's pretty good.
[Arianna Huffington voice] Hello, Scott! How are you?
I am sorry. What? I'm sorry, who is it?
It's Arianna. Arianna. I could do … I can do a lot of people. But I will not do them now. I will deploy them slowly for you.
Good!
All right, Scott, it's always a pleasure, all in all, but I have to get out of here. I have to go to … you know, I have to order things from Amazon, then do SoulCycle or something like that. In fact, I have to go see my child.
Do you do SoulCycle?
Yes of course.
You pay $ 35 for SoulCycle?
Yes! And I love the millennia that give me life tips. That's why I'm going. Because I like when young people say to me, "You know what, if you pedal harder, you can change your life."
You can change your life?
Anyway, they have all kinds of crazy advice, like those of 22 years old. And that's what I prefer because they're all wrong.
Yeah.
So I'm thinking of doing my own SoulCycle class where I just put Madonna in an endless loop and then, or Barry Manilow, someone, something that will make them sick. And then, I'll say, "All right, you know this relationship can 'change'? Not really. Probably not. And your job is probably a dead end. Par exemple, dans 30 ans, vous saurez quand ils vous remplaceront par un jeune », comme ce genre de choses.
Ouais, tu devrais appeler le studio Half Empty.
Non, je vais l'appeler Soul-sappingCycle
Recyclage d'âme, j'aime ça.
Ce sera la chose la plus populaire. Quoi qu'il en soit, que faites-vous cette semaine?
Plus important encore, vous ne m'avez pas posé de question sur mon voyage à Harry Potter.
Comment était-ce?
C'était probablement la meilleure expérience de divertissement de ce genre. Et c’était tout à fait affreux, mais j’ai décidé que j’abandonnais complètement mon amour pour mes enfants et c’était ce que voulait mon enfant de 8 ans. Je peux supporter quelque chose. J'ai dû supporter la nausée, l'épuisement dû à la chaleur et certains des pires aliments que j'ai jamais mangés. Mais j’ai décidé que ce n’était pas si mal parce que j’étais avec mon fils de 8 ans et il était tellement heureux. Donc c'était affreux et merveilleux en même temps, Kara.
Je l'aime là-bas. Je pense que c’est vraiment un produit commercial incroyable …
Ils font un très bon travail.
Cela fait. Cela fait. Cela fait. J'ai eu une semaine plutôt occupée. J'étais avec Samantha Bee.
Oh, comment ça s'est passé? À quoi ressemble-t-elle? A-t-elle demandé de moi?
Euh, oui, non.
Est-ce qu'elle a demandé … Est-ce qu'elle sait … Tu m'as élevé, n'est-ce pas?
No.
D'accord.
No.
Thank you. Thanks for that. À quoi ressemble-t-elle?
Elle est charmante. Elle est très… très décevante… c’était une conversation très sobre. C'était beaucoup pour les réfugiés. C'était à propos de ce qui lui était arrivé. Je ne vais pas répéter le mot parce que je ne l’aime pas moi-même. Mais quand elle a appelé Ivanka le mot «C». C'était bon. C'était très bon. C'était une très bonne conversation. C'était une excellente conversation. Et j’aurai des discussions à venir à New York auxquelles je pourrais vous inviter. J'interviewe Hillary Clinton.
Vous interviewez Hillary Clinton?
Again. Pour la deuxième fois ou troisième. I do not know. Je l’ai souvent interviewée.
Et quel est le lieu, et pourquoi l’interviewez-vous?
Dans 92nd Street Y à New York parce que je vais la laisser parler … Il y a deux ans, elle a fait toutes ces allégations à propos de la Russie. Elles se sont toutes révélées vraies. Je vais donc la laisser prendre un peu de temps pour parler à propos de ça. Ensuite, j’interviewe Eric Garcetti qui est censé se présenter à la mairie et Sean Hayes de Will & Grace. J'ai beaucoup d'interviews à venir.
Oh mon Dieu! Je suis tellement Kimbal Musk. Je vais faire du crossfit.
Yes.
C’est ce que je fais cette semaine.
D'accord. En tous cas.
Seriously.
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