"The Church, as it is constituted today, is a dangerous institution"

Á. Rogel | Mr Castro | J. Cisternas

"We live the crisis of the hierarchy, because it is she who has committed the crimes, but also the crisis is the hierarchy of the experience of faith. C & # 39; that is to say that a layman does not reach an institution of equals, but becomes subject of the priest.This is why the Church is today an institution dangerous, because it makes us all vulnerable, because we are not in a space between equals, where dissent is frowned upon and persecuted. "

The phrase is from Juan Carlos Claret Spokesman of the Community of Laity of Osorno who was in Concepción invited by his peers from Bío Bío, to tell the story of his group after the arrival controversial Bishop Juan Barros to the city.

Claret is not against the Church, on the contrary. Believe it and actively participate. But he argues that it is necessary to change some things that prevent badual abuse scandals like those that are beginning to be known now in Concepción. Believe in horizontality, in the need to build bridges between communities, in the transparency and in the involvement of the state.

In an interview with Diario Concepción, he also spoke about the denunciations against Hernán Enríquez and the actions of the archbishops Fernando Chomali and Ricardo Ezzati .

– What do you think of the Archbishop's appeal to the victims of Concepción to address the Church and Civil Justice? In fact, he begged to do so …

– He reminded me of the Pope when he was returning from Peru to Rome and in the plane he said, "Well, there is no complaint against Juan Barros.If anyone needs to approach them. " The Church lost its protective space and only the graphic (Fernando) Chomali. This is not strange to me after listening to the same pope, but Chomali did not realize that the pope himself had changed his attitude (…). He also fails in something legal, because if he had respected his canonical obligation, the victim or father of the victim should have been contacted by the promoter of justice, who is the person responsible for To investigate . (Editor's note: Chomali said in an interview that he had contacted whistleblowers when he took a stand in 2011, but that they had refused to sue at that time)

– Can there be negligence? Considering that the case is known in 2009 and that the new archbishop still knows the case in

– In this case the line that separates the negligence of the fraud is very subtle and only with the time one will know if the negligence was fraudulent. Today Ezzati tells La Tercera that she is not going to refer to the religious case because she does not know the facts, but at Ciper they are related (…). On the other hand, Chomali falls into triple neglect. The article of the Code of Canon Law states that when a bishop is aware of a crime, he must immediately proceed to the investigation, under certain conditions. The National Commission for the Prevention of Abuse of the Catholic Church describes news that is a "I told you", an email, a rumor or an information in the press. And Chomali recognizes that they arrived at him recently supported. Second, the negligence lies in the duration of the previous investigation. He says that he is in a previous investigation. Is it a seven-year prior survey or a previous survey after seven years? And third, he unlike Ezzati, had the obligation, since 2010, to refer the whole context of cases involving minors, at the time of the event, to the Congregation for Doctrine of faith

– Did you say that the state should be more involved in this type of case?

– It is desirable that there be new ways to do the church. But to change the institution, the state of Chile must be an ally. On July 3, he was invited to the Office of Religious Affairs Segpres . There, I told you, Javier Castro, and Javier Luis Egaña, who was the ambbadador of Chile to the Holy See, that they get their hands dirty and put pressure on the Church or that you will be responsible for omitting the systematic violation of human rights against children.

– And is the state aware of its responsibility?

– No And I do not know if it's because of misinformation. In fact, these issues are dealt with by seniors who believe that the only ones who violate human rights are states, not individuals. Is it an age problem? Or why does the political game make the Church untouchable?

– What do you think?

– There is a bit of everything (…). The church, whether we like it or not, is a political actor. Not even as faithful, but as a hierarchy. That is why it is important that the counterweight comes from the state (…). The truth is that institutions continue to lose humanity. It is therefore good that as Catholics we do this fight, we must make the institutions more humane.

– Archbishop Ezzati said not to worry about cover-ups, but the climate of slander that exists in the country. What do you think?

– Ezzati should at some point remain silent. It's sad what I'm going to say, but it does not surprise me or draw my attention, because it's the usual practice not only of Ezzati, but of all the bishops. When all the bishops arrived in Rome in February 2017 to report on the Church, several bishops wanted to tell the Pope about the situation in Osorno. But the Pope spoke and the files were saved. No one spoke and they went to visit. It is a manifestation of bishops officials. The speech of Ezzati in La Tercera is cruel, but it must be expected that, in the logic of a bishop, the only thing that interests him is the l & # 39; Institution, not the person. But institutions are made by people and Ezzati lost sight of them.