From Trump's former lawyer, Frank talk on Mueller, Manafort, Sessions, Rosenstein, collusion, tweets, privilege and press

What was President Trump doing when he publicly attacked the work of the Trump-Russia special council, Robert Mueller? What was going on behind the scenes between the White House and Mueller's office? Was there cooperation? A struggle for privilege? And how angry was Trump against Attorney General Jeff Sessions and Deputy Minister Rod Rosenstein when the special council was appointed?

Veteran lawyer John Dowd was the lawyer for President Trump during a critical period of the Trump-Russia investigation, from June 2017 to March 2018. In a new podcast, Dowd presented a frankly unusual look on what was happening between the president and the prosecutor. (The new podcast follows another equally revealing session, with Dowd last week.) Taken together, Dowd's observations show a relationship between Trump and the special board very different from that seen in many media. Here is a glimpse of what Dowd had to say:

Trump's attacks on Mueller

In our previous interview, Dowd pointed out that the Trump White House had fully cooperated with Mueller's investigation and that on several occasions, Trump had asked Dowd to inform Mueller that the president was complying with the work of the prosecutor. But how could one say that Trump fully cooperated while the president at the same time strongly denounced the investigation as a "witch hunt" and a "hoax" and denounced Mueller's prosecutors as "17 Democrats in anger"?

The answer lies in Trump's long tradition of operating at two levels. On the surface, Trump sparks controversy, often using Twitter to say something offensive that sets the media agenda and leaves some commentators angry. At the same time, under the surface, Trump takes steps to do a particular job.

This was true with Russia's investigation. For the general public, Trump denounced Mueller and threw his team out. Backstage, Trump cooperated and made sure his staff did the same. The Trump White House has offered everyone (with the exception, of course, to the President himself) to be interviewed, as well as to piles of documents that others White houses could have kept for reasons of executive power privilege or otherwise. So, Trump simultaneously attacked and cooperated.

Asked about the attacks, Dowd said Mueller understood that Trump needed a political defense of the Russian problem. "Bob understood that, it was political," Dowd said. " [Trump] He had to deal with politics, and that was his way of doing it with his tweets and comments … Bob was a big boy politically. He understood that the president had to approach politics. He could not say anything. People were pounding him about this matter every day, both publicly and privately, and he had to take [Mueller] sure."

Mueller's only real concern about the president's rhetoric, Dowd said, was the fear that it might send a message to Trump's side for not cooperating.

"From the beginning, when the president started to take it to Mueller, Mueller told me that he feared that some people would not cooperate," Dowd said. "I said, well, we encouraged everyone to cooperate, and if you want me to say something publicly about it, and the president, we're happy to do it." We have encouraged everyone who has been asked to cooperate … Bob was happy with that, it never happened again. "

In the end, Dowd stated that Mueller "acknowledged that all the witnesses had told the truth, that all the documents were there, that there was nothing missing, that no document had been destroy". The level of cooperation, said Dowd, was "really remarkable," while the president entertained the world with his tweets.

The privilege agreement

In both conversations, Dowd described some of the materials Trump gave Mueller. For example, he referred to the notes of Annie Donaldson, chief of staff of White House lawyer Don McGahn. The notes commemorated many White House meetings in which the President discussed the issue of Russia with key advisers. They were vast. Dowd said that it had taken many hours to read them. Even if Trump could have claimed the privilege of a leader or other privilege to refuse them to Mueller, he instead turned them over to the special advocate's office.

Why? Dowd explained that Ty Cobb, another Trump lawyer, had suggested to the White House to hand over the documents under the terms of an informal agreement with Mueller. The idea was: Mueller was in the executive branch. The White House was in the executive. The White House would transmit the material from one executive organ to another without claiming any privilege, provided that Mueller agrees that, if he intended to use the material in public, he would consult the House in advance. white.

"Ty Cobb came up with the idea of ​​designing this so that we could speed up the production of documents and testimonials," Dowd said. "You can imagine how it would be a nightmare to take document by document and assert the privilege because [executive] privilege, and indeed the privilege of communications from the White House. I thought it was a good idea. Ty has Bob and [top deputy James] The Quarles promise that if they were to use it in public, they would come back to the White House. "

I asked how this could work in a conflictual relationship. After all, Mueller's staff consisted of prosecutors. They may want to use this information to charge the president (against the policy of the Justice Department but publicly discussed at the time), or to create a roadmap for Congress to remove him. How could Trump accept this? Was it evidence of an extraordinary level of trust?

"That was," says Dowd. "I would not say it's contradictory, it happens when you charge, it was more inquisitorial, Bob was simply investigating, investigating certain cases that had come to his attention … and there was indeed more trust in our relationship than in any other business. " in all my career. "

Jeff Sessions and Mueller's rendezvous

Although Dowd regularly described an atmosphere of professionalism and cooperation between the Trump team and the Mueller investigation, he was nevertheless unhappy that there had been an investigation into the Mueller case. And he added that he had many unanswered questions about the role of Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein.

"How the hell did that happen?" Dowd asked, referring to Mueller's appointment on May 17, 2017. "That day is the day after the president interviewed Mueller for the FBI director and did not want him. discussed the conflict with the Trump Golf Club The next day, Sessions and Jody Hunt, the Sessions Chief of Staff were in the Oval Office talking, when I think Don McGahn or someone came in and said says that Rosenstein had just appointed a special advocate, Bob Mueller. "

The sessions, of course, were challenged from the investigation of Russia, an action that made Trump still angry. In the Oval Office, the Attorney General was caught off guard by the news of Mueller. "The sessions were horrified," Dowd said. "He was so embarrassed, and the president said [to Sessions] how could you not know? And Jody Hunt, who was the Chief of Staff of the Attorney General, ignored him and he was horrified. And the poor Sessions resigned on the spot. They started writing a resignation letter. He was so embarrassed and humiliated. "

"And then, Hunt went back to the department," Dowd continued. "He entered Rosenstein's office and said [Rosenstein] was squatting behind his desk and asked Hunt, 'Will they fire me?' Think about it for a minute. I mean, no one knows how Rosenstein and Mueller ever met, why Mueller was chosen. No one has ever answered any questions about it. And then, the order that he issued does not contain any crime … It's a counterintelligence investigation … And Jody Hunt wrote in his notes that he had told Rosenstein that what he had done was despicable and unprofessional. And that's all I know about it. I do not know anymore. "

The explosion of the sessions

It is well known that the President was angry at Sessions for being recused from the investigation of Russia. Trump did not think the challenge was necessary and even though Sessions was going to do it, Trump was unhappy that the Attorney General had not warned him in advance. Now, many, many people have heard Trump leave in sessions, both in public and in private.

"For good reason," said Dowd. "It's like what Rosenstein did.They ambushed their president.I will never understand what the sessions did … I do not understand.Why are Sessions recused? for shaking hands with a guy at a reception, but even worse was confirmed as Attorney General, he decided that he could not oversee a ministerial investigation, he's not sure. 39 not called the president to tell him to look, I decided that I could not do it. "

"The president was completely blind and it was wrong," Dowd continued. "Of course, it's the poor Sessions who are the victim, but shame on him."

But did not sessions have a legitimate reason? After all, the investigation focused on the Trump campaign and the sessions played a role in the campaign. "No, that's just what," Dowd replied. "This is not a conflict." Bob Mueller had a trade dispute with the president, "he did not depart." Dowd attributed the debate on a Sessions conflict to "rants" in the Senate.

Dowd was not finished. "[Sessions] was a miserable failure as Attorney General, I do not feel sorry for him at all. [Trump] had good reason to be upset by the performance of Sessions. "Beyond," says Dowd, "the guy [Sessions] hurt him. He wounded her. He has done a great deal of harm to the president and would be ashamed to do it. And I agree with the president. I would have fired the son of a bitch right away. "

These manafort and stone raids disguised

Dowd has long claimed that he thought the former Trump campaign president, Paul Manafort, had been treated unfairly. We did not look at the entire Manafort case, but I asked him questions about the July 26, 2017 raid in which FBI agents armed with their firearms were unsheathed. , executed a search warrant at Manafort's home.

"I did not like it at all," Dowd said. "All I knew, Manafort and his lawyers had always cooperated … But I also knew [Mueller prosecutor] The reputation of Andrew Weissmann is really exaggerated. … it was just useless … I learned that they only had the files of [law firm] Wilmer Hale, who was preparing Manafort for his testimony before a Senate committee. "

"[Manafort’s] his wife was in bed, "Dowd continued. I still think it's outrageous … Shame on them … I just do not understand that Bob Mueller and his people are doing something like this … It was a terrible abuse of power. … it was useless … to do this waterfall in the morning, with an army, and then they did it again to Roger Stone … "

When I asked about Stone's arrest, Dowd said, "It was an amphibious landing. I was in the Marines. I made an amphibious landing. I could not believe they were making one at Stone's house! It's muscular, it's too much, it's made to scare … I've never had anything, and I've been dealing with organized crime for six or seven years, from d & # 39; # 39; bribery cases, I've never had anything by fear … I do not believe that it is a beautiful legacy for the Mueller probe. I would be embarrassed to be associated with it. "

Bad press

It can be said that the Mueller Inquiry is the most intensely covered political inquiry in American history. A significant number of stories concerning the survey contained errors. Some were completely wrong. Mueller almost never commented on them. But Dowd described a tacit arrangement in which Mueller's office reported to Trump's lawyers that an important press article was false.

On July 20, 2017, Bloomberg News published an article titled "Mueller Expands Trump's Commercial Transactions to Trump". The story was false, Dowd said, as he had checked with sources of the Trump organization and had also checked the requests for information provided by Mueller.

"We had an agreement with Bob and [deputy James Quarles] that if the list they had originally given us had changed, we would first have a warning that they would add to their list, "Dowd said.

"I knew from other sources that [the Bloomberg story] it was not true. I knew from Trump's side that it was absurd. No one has investigated these other transactions. I also told the Bloomberg reporter, who refused to accept it, that I had not heard about it and that it was not on our list of articles in the company. special advocate, and that they would tell us first. "

Bloomberg has published anyway. "I think I let a day or two go by and I called Quarles," Dowd said. "The problem is that they do not like being able to make a public statement, so I had to go through his office to file something and we met at the same time. and he said, in code, "do not believe everything you read in the newspapers." I said, I got it, OK, and I could then say [to the president] I spoke to the special advocate and there was no basis for that. But I knew it already, because I knew that their word was good. But I have not been able to convince the press to accept it. They were all alone. "