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What remains to the empress of the media and icon of inspiration? In a diverse interview, Winfrey explains her streaming strategy (including a series of possible interviews), which she plans for 2020 ("I'd like to see what's going on with Butta" – aka Pete Buttigieg) and the creative fire that feeds her now. .
It was 1984. Oprah Winfrey was visiting Bel-Air for the first time. While she was climbing Stone Canyon Road, the host of a once impoverished television show from rural Mississippi was fascinated by the opulence hidden behind towering doors.
"It's the first time I really realize how rich whites really lived," she says. Being able to see him firsthand was transformative. "Recognizing that there is another way of living, let me know that it is possible."
His series of moments aha continued. The following year, Winfrey arrived at the offices of Steven Spielberg, for whom she made her film debut in The color Purple. The role earned him an Oscar nomination and an invitation to his Amblin headquarters in Los Angeles. Until that time, Winfrey had no idea, she said, that "you could have your own studio."
More than three decades later, Winfrey is a self-proclaimed billionaire (Forbes estimates its net worth at $ 2.8 billion) with sumptuous houses hidden behind doors and, yes, his own studio. She also has a television network, an eponymous magazine and a mega-focus with Apple that will include a book club, documentaries and – she teases here – a potential series that would plunge her back into the interview chair. She has also turned her iconic status into opportunities to educate and inspire around the world. "I want to let this planet able to say:" It caused no harm, did a lot of good, "she said.
Like Winfrey, 65, ready to receive The Hollywood Reporterfirst prize Empowerment in Entertainment at a gala event on April 30, she invited THR following her hotel in Manhattan, where she was promoting her latest book, The path laid out. Relaxed in designer clothes and black-rimmed glasses, Winfrey talked about his political projects, 60 minutes departure and how a history of marginalization ultimately shaped it.
What do you know about American politics now that you did not know the day Trump was sworn in?
I know that there is an underlying level of discontent and dissatisfaction stronger than anything I could have imagined. If I had made the Oprah At the time of the 2016 election, I would not have been in the least surprised by the result, because every day this audience was my focus group on the world – every day they came from the world. Red states and blue states with all kinds of beliefs. system, gathered in this common moment of the Oprah show. And the best time for me was not the show, but after the show, talk to all these people. I would have known, felt and heard the thing differently and I would not have been surprised on election night.
Armed with this information, what would you have done differently?
Driving is back now, but I would have applied what I heard to the kind of shows we were doing. I would have put in the foreground everything that was going on in a way that polls or weekly reviews could not do. I would not have been like, "Whoa, I did not know everyone was so crazy."
You have so much cultural power. Short of getting started in 2020 …
(Shake your head no.)
… how do you use it?
At the moment, I study the field. I read Shortest way to the house by [Pete Buttigieg], I call it Buttabeep, Buttaboop. (Laughs.) The name is really going to hurt or [really help] – I think it'll help, actually. The other day I was at Apple with Spielberg and we were in the hall talking about (using a dramatic voice) "What are we going to do?" And I said, "Have you heard about this Butta guy?" He's going, "No, Butta-who?" I'm going, "Buttabeep, Buttaboop, look at him."
"Mayor Pete" feels easier.
I like to say "Butta". (Laughs.So, I read about him. I have Kamala's book. I just got the Vanity Fair piece on Beto [O’Rourke]. I had already done some research on him. I already know Cory [Booker]. So, I am quietly determining where I will use my voice to support me.
There is a line in the Vanity Fair An article by Beto that says "Oprah Winfrey, who contributed to the anointing of Barack Obama in 2008, has practically begged her to show up for an event in New York in early February." Is it true?
Oh, I do not think I practically begged him. When I read that, I thought: "This is not correct." What I was practically asking is: "Would you tell me if you are going to [run] Even backstage, I said, "Well, when you go do it, are you going to let me know you're going to do it?" What he did not do, so I'm getting rested J & # Wait to see, we'll see who I'm supporting.
Trump has demonstrated how entertainment can be used to advance harmful causes. How do progressive creations do things that have a positive influence but do not feel like specials after school?
Promotions after school? Oh my God, I think I made one. (Laughs.) I think with the spectrum of streaming services and [other channels], many people do it now, and these are not specials after school. TV is so good these days. I do not look much because I have to watch a lot on my own channel, so the only other thing I watch is The crownand it's so good. I heard that they had just found a new Diana. The fact that I even know that …
I remember talking to you when you started OWN and you had great spiritual programming projects …
Oh yes, I was delusional. Please, get me out of my delirious spiritual closet.
In the current landscape, with the apples and Netflix that you have referenced, is there room for this type of programming as there was none then?
That's what I learned from this experience. And, oh boy, was it a hard lesson? You have to meet people where they are, not where [you are]. Not everyone wants to sit down and talk to Eckhart Tolle all day. I do. I can have dinner every night, but not everyone wants to do it. So I understood that.
This brings me to the incursion of Obama in production. What are the opportunities for him and Michelle at Netflix, and what are the pitfalls?
Oh, they can do what they want.
What advice did you offer?
When they started, he called me for names to run [their company]and I offered him some. They are ultimately not the ones he chose, but that's fine. There is nobody like them. Nobody. Their desire to want to use this media to tell stories, to show us our story, to bring an informative and inspirational approach to content – I can not wait to see what it will become.
You took into account the first presentation of Apple's programming at the end of March. What will you do for them that you can not do at OWN?
Apple exposes you to many more people. As I said on that day, what really fascinates me is creating the largest reading club in the world. And if I want to make a movie or a series of doc … The best place for [my docuseries on mental health] It's not on CLEAN. Because you do not have the bandwidth and you have to create a completely different audience, then you have to have marketing.
One of your other Apple projects will focus on sexual abuse in the workplace. If you succeed, what will you reveal?
My mission is always to let others know: "You are not alone." Obviously, we are going to take care of women in Hollywood and in the music industry, but what was important to me was to include waitresses and nurses, and women religious and people. that you would never imagine, so that the world can see themselves in their stories. I've been adamant: if you only tell the story of Hollywood, you will only be partially heard.
Why is that?
Because, I think, the dynamism of the mind is "Well, okay, that's Hollywood, they ask because they wanted to be in this industry and we have always heard about the cast. " I therefore hope that people will understand how much it is a huge problem and that it is ubiquitous – and that they will be better able to listen to the stories of the world. other people on what they were able to do. It's shame, guilt, keeping the secret for you that then informs all your choices and changes who you are. Most women want it.
What would you like to discuss in the context of the Apple collaboration?
I do not want to be in a daily rhythm of trying to find people to interview, but when there are people who are culture – like last year, I would have wanted to m & # 's Sit down and have a conversation with Christine Blasey Ford. At this moment, I would probably want to sit down and talk to Butta.
I knew it was back to Butta.
I would like to see what happens with Butta. (Laughs.And then all that presents itself. Having experienced such devastation in our own community in Santa Barbara [from deadly 2018 mudslides near her Montecito home] and recognize what happens once the TV cameras are gone – we went to the news for two days, but people came to my house [long after] and go, "Oh my God, it's again "Yes, we lost 21 people, and two are still missing, I was cleaning 154 trucks of mud a few months later in my yard, so … I think a lot about the people of Paradise [in fire-ravaged Northern California]. Really, I get up in the morning and think about these people. I want to talk to them. I want to see how they are doing and remind people that rebuilding a life takes time.
Do you envision this as a single piece or a series?
Maybe at some point, there will be a regular series.
You made a lot of noise by mingling with Leave Neverland, via your special After Neverland. How did it happen?
I did not even need to be there. I did not have to take all that. I said to myself the other day, "Why did I do that?"
Do you regret it?
No, I do not regret it. It was not really a regret, it was just … actually, I was having dinner with friends and they were saying, "We saw that you were in that." Like, "Why did you do that?" That's what happened. I saw him and I was upset. I was not even shaken by the fact that it was Michael Jackson, I was shaken by the fact that [filmmaker] Dan Reed had very well shown the pattern and for years I tried to show the motive to people. I had tried to say that it was not about the moment, but about seduction. The first thing I said to Gayle [King] when we watched it was, "Gayle, you have to get these guys[sure[we[sur[onCBS this morning]"She instincts Instagram, and I thought," No, you should not Instagram, you should just have these guys. "
How are you involved?
I sent [HBO’s former chairman Richard] Pleply a text and say, "Look, I'm trying to reach some of your people.What are you all doing with that?" I really wanted to talk not only to the guys but to the other people who saw it because I knew people would be triggered by it. I knew that there would be people who would be re-traumatized by this and would see themselves in that, and I thought, "I can help thread the needle of what's really going on here . "
I guess you did not anticipate the backfire?
Oh, hate? HoneeeeeyI have not had so much hate since "The Puppy Episode" with Ellen[Winfreyaétéinvitéentantquethérapeutele1997[Winfreyguestedasthetherapistonthe1997[Winfreyaétéinvitéentantquethérapeutele1997[Winfreyguestedasthetherapistonthe1997Ellen sitcom episode in which the character of Ellen DeGeneres comes out], and that made me think: "Fortunately, Ellen's release took place before social media because you can imagine?" During "The Puppy Episode", I had to remove the people who were at the standard at Harpo because of vitriol. They were scared.
What did people say about this episode?
The keyword "Go back to Africa", slut, hoes. … He became racist and homophobic and vile and "String ya up", "It's against the Lord". I mean, you call him. Similar to the Michael Jackson thing. I was on Twitter for something and someone had said, "Oprah Winfrey is a shame for the race" or something. Yes, the whole race. I decided, you know what? It will not be healthy for me, so I did not get involved.
Have you heard of the Jackson family?
(Shake your head no.) Because for me it was not even about Michael Jackson. It was about the biggest problem.
Let's talk about the cultural calculation in progress. One of your 86 jobs is at 60 minutes, who was shaken by his share of # MeToo incidents …
I do not do that anymore. I retired from that, so I only have 85 jobs now.
I did not realize it. How to come?
I actually went to[former[form[ancien[former60 minutes executive producer]Jeff Fager before the entire CBS (pantomimes an explosionand said that I was going to work with Apple and that that did not mean that I would never do something[with[with[avec[with60 minutes]but I would probably take all my energies and put them in what I wanted to do at Apple. It was an interesting experience for me. I loved working with teams and I will probably work with freelancers on my Apple hardware, but it was not the best format for me.
Why not?
How should I say that? Never a good thing when I have to practice pronouncing my name and being told that I have too much emotion on my behalf.
I guess you did not like it?
No, it is not that it is not very well seated. I did it. I think I did just seven taken on my name because it was "too emotional". I'm going, "Is there too much emotion in the party 'Oprah' or the party 'Winfrey'?" I had a moment of déjà vu because I had already lived once when I covered a story as a young journalist [where] the family had lost their home and my boss told me that I had told him with too much emotion. I had too much emotion in the story. I thought, "OK, so you're not supposed to be involved in the story, I understand, you're a journalist." But the same is true even with a reading[at[at[à[at60 minutes]. They would say, "Okay, you have to flatten your voice, there is too much emotion in your voice." So I was working to dismantle and smooth my personality – which, for me, is not such a good thing.
Gayle made the choice to stay at CBS News. What advice did you give him in what became a highly publicized negotiation?
I said, "Get what you want.Get exactly what you want because the time has come.And if you do not get what you want, take the next step in the right direction. " Even without me, she was going to do that. But that was my advice and I called her lawyer, Allen Grubman, and said, "Allen, she should get what she wants. And Allen says, "What do you think I'm doing here?" I told him the same thing! The negotiation was already taking place before his interview with R. Kelly.
Although it certainly gave him more weight.
I know. I texted him saying, "Jesus loves you." But [the R. Kelly interview] could not have been better if I had done it myself. I think every interviewer thinks: "What would you have done at that time?" And what she did was an absolute perfection. I just thought that for the moment that was going on when she is also negotiating is amazing, but she always had that [gift]. One of my daughters studying to become a reporter sent me a text saying, "Oh, Aunt Gayle, broadcasting goals." And I said: "Not to broadcast goals, life goals." Your life goal [should be] to be centered in the midst of any storm in your life. "
In your opinion, is the Time & Up's movement enough to truly empower women?
I am rooted in the spiritual sense of: everything happens exactly as it is supposed to happen. So, the fact that there even exists, that there is an organization called Time's Up, created for the empowerment and emboldening of women, is exactly what we are supposed to be right now. And the new day on the horizon is actually here. This new day when, because a waitress from Idaho or a Michigan worker heard someone telling her story, she said, "Oh no, no, no, you can not talk to me like that, I'm not going to take that anymore. "This is happening all over the country, so the culture is changing because of the Time & # 39; s Up movement.
Bring me back to your Golden Globes speech in 2018, when you uttered these words: "A new day is looming on the horizon". At what point in this stage did you become aware of your impact?
First of all, I thought every time we applauded, I counted the number of seconds, because I was told that the speech was too long and that I needed to cut it. That's what I said during the rehearsal.
Sure to assume you have not cut it?
I had said, "I do not want [rehearse] in front of [everyone]"They said," Well, can you just read it longer? "Then the producer came out and said," Honey, powerful. Very moving. You have to cut three minutes. "It was the morning of. The morning of! And I'm like, "What?" And then he said to me, "I know how much you care about your colleagues, you'll be at the top of the hour with the best actress and the best actors and I know you do not want to take time away. from them. "
Play the guilt card …
Yes, now it will be my fault if other people do not have the time. But I did not know how I could do it. I've thought of telling the whole story of the woman who died, Recy Taylor, but it's not going on without her because that was my basic space. So I did not cut it and I was scared all the time. I have never had a dry mouth in all my speeches of all my life. I was panicked. So when people got up, I thought, "Oh my God, Mississippi, two Mississippi, oh my God, four seconds, five seconds, sit down, sit down!" And while I was nearing the end, I thought, "They can not cut me off." That's all I think. "Do not cut me off." But I did not obey the rules and I expected them to do it. When I left with Reese [Witherspoon], I went, "Oh my God, they did not cut me off."
If I'm not mistaken, some variations of # Oprah2020 started following trends almost immediately.
We went into the press room at the back and they said, "You tend." And that, you'll love: Originally, I was going to interview Time's Women's Up[fora[fora[pourun[foraCBS Sunday morning segment]in front of the Globes, and my chief of staff, Amy Weinblum, said to me, "You know, you should probably wait and interview them the next day, because something might happen [at the ceremony]"So I was waiting all the time for something to happen." Whenever someone stood up, I would say, "No, I do not think it was that. "" No, that was not it. "Then after she said,"You arrived! "I was the thing that happened. (Laughs.)
I imagine that you have spent a large part of your career as the only woman and only black person in many powerful halls. According to your experience, what is the impact on the decisions made?
Oh, for so many years, there was not a brown person or any other woman within a 50 mile radius. I just got used to it.
What happens when there is only one?
It is difficult to be heard when there is only one. I remember my friends would say – in fact, the students who were not my friends at the university – said, "Oh, you're a pledge" and I would say, "Yes, but I'm a paid pledge and me "I will use it. "This reinforced my resolve, and whenever I felt marginalized or someone else was marginalized, I used this information as something not to do. when the Oprah The show was first national, I went to the direction of WLS-TV [the ABC-owned station in Chicago] – I will not name names – and I said: "Everybody needs more money for this national show." They said, direct quote: "Why do they need more money? These are girls." I said, "Well, it's a group of girls who are now doing a national show." And they said, "They are in the same room, with the same offices and the same office, in the same street, they do not need any more money." So this first year, I gave everyone bonuses. I had a great dinner and my idea of being creative was to have $ 10,000 in rolls of toilet paper at dinner because I could not get management to pay for them. Then I went to see the management and said, "If you do not pay them, I will not work." The following year, it was like: "I will not continue to pay them, I should not have to pay everyone on my salary." This has informed me that if I ever have my own business, I will pay well people.
When did you develop that confidence to push back?
I remember working in Baltimore [in the mid-1970s] and be in a position where I was doing exactly the same job as my [male] co-animate and enter my leader, saying, "Gee, I would like to get an increase," and the others, saying, "But why do you own your house, do you have children?" He has children. Do you have college payments? Do you have a mortgage? "I just tucked my dick between my legs and said," Thanks a lot. " And that's when I decided not to become an institutional anchor. I will leave here because they can not see my value. But I did not blame myself for a minute. I just thought, "Oh, you do not understand." Even as a young journalist, I always felt that there was something more important to do and say than what I'm doing here now, chasing ambulances. I could feel in the center of me that my life would not be in the street, holding a microphone in front of people's faces and searching every day for the worst thing that happened to anyone to talk to. So, there was this innate knowing that it's not going to be that. During all the times I felt discriminated against, downcast, marginalized, I always thought, "It will not be long."
In the future, what remains on your list?
More. (Laughs.)
More to act?
No, it does not feed me anymore.
Why not? Only a year ago, when you were featured in A ride in time, I believe that's always the case.
Yeah. It made. I fed myself. But I think to be really, really good, you have to do it a lot. You must work on it. And that must be something that really fascinates. I do not think it's something you can interfere with. It was fun to be Mrs. Which, and I did it because I wanted to go to New Zealand and wear the costumes. But no, it does not feed my soul anymore. I can not imagine anything happening except … Oh, I can not tell you, because when someone else receives it, he will know that I have it Free. [first]. But there was something that was offered to me on Broadway – Scott Rudin sent me a letter and said, "You should take that role," and that was really, really tempting.
When we sat down a few years ago, the idea of returning to Broadway interested you.
I wanted to do it. But then that's what I did. During one of my visits to New York, I actually put myself in the space of: You are now living in the city and that is your corner and it is here that you walk your dogs. Will you bring a single dog or will you bring all the dogs? It's there that you go shopping. This is your dry cleaner. How are you going to feel in this city without trees or grass? So I put myself in the future and went through it myself, and I thought, "I can do it for a month, I can not do it before six o'clock." I am enriched and fulfilled by my association with nature. I have this whole delusional routine [in Santa Barbara]. It is only after I get up to pee after 3:30 pm that I will hit the power outage [shades] so that the sun does not wake me up so I can see all the benefits of the night. [I get to] see the moonlight on the ocean. Then I have the morning ritual where I go to the shade and I wait to see what is the day. Every day, I leave: "Look at yourself, day, look at you!" It's not going to happen here [in New York].
Two years ago, during a podcast, you told my colleague that your last ad had been in the early '90s and that you do not remember the last time a person did not have you. immediately recognized. I've been struck by both responses, and I'm curious: when was the last time that you actually missed your anonymity and what is the first thing you would do if you could get it back?
What a waste of time! It's like that. I accepted it
But if you could go anywhere, do something?
But I do.
Do you?
Yeah. There is not one thing I would like to do. Except now I think going to a party if people have their camera at the party. Because a party with people with their cameras is not really a party for me. You are exposed and you only make yourself selfie all night. And if you make one, you must do everything. But you must know this about me whenever we talked – I would be the same person if I was the fourth grade teacher that I thought I was.
Yes, but I also know that there is something good to be able to run in the street to have a cup of coffee when I want it.
Oh, I'm doing all that. And now, there is a little of this respectful arm length. When I was on TV every day, it was like: "Hey, Oprah!" But now, it's that kind of respectful thing, "Oh, it's you." Unless … you know, I was at Apple the other day and this girl started shaking and crying. She said, "But you do not understand." I just took her by the arms and said, "Are you okay?" And she said, "You do not understand." I'm going, "Yeah, I'm doing." She goes, "No, but you do not do it." I'm going, "Yeah, so, I've brought you up." "You came home from school and there was no one at home, no?" Every day, four o'clock, I'm at home. was there. " "Yes, yes, you raised me." It warms my heart. There is a whole generation of people who have, like, 30 years old, and it was their life. And now I [also] receive "My mother loves you" and I go "And you do not? "
I was impressed by the fact that you knew the exact month, April 1991, during which you took your last commercial flight. Tell me about this day.
I was going to an awards ceremony for Aretha Franklin, and I was at the airport and I was bent over like that (puts his head between his knees) and a woman came to me and said, "Do not act like you do on TV." And I'm going, "I'm right here." And she says, "Oh, I see you, trying to be incognito." And I say, "No, ma'am." She says, "Because on TV, you always hug people, I want a hug." So I got up and I hugged her and then I went on the phone and called my lawyer and I said to her, "I'm going to do it, I'm going to take the l '. This will be my last time waiting for four hours at the airport 'O Hare Chicago'.
Hugging people.
Yeah. And no one likes to mention that name now, but I've had several conversations with Bill Cosby about the plane. I was trying to justify it by saying, "Okay, if I put 10 people in the plane, that would have accounted for how many plane tickets should I pay?" Et il a dit: "Vous ne pourrez jamais le justifier car c'est un vrai luxe. Vous pouvez décider de faire le saut et de le faire ou non, mais vous ne pourrez jamais justifier le frais." Ce qui est vrai. [So, I took a] acte de foi et j’ai fait ce premier chèque – parce que je ne supporte pas les factures – pour mon premier G4 pour les 25 millions de dollars. Je me souviens que j'avais vu Camille Cosby à Teterboro lorsque j'affrétais un avion et que j'essayais de le justifier. Quelqu'un a dit: "Oh, Mme Cosby est là-bas, voudriez-vous dire bonjour?" Alors je monte dans l'avion de Mme Cosby et Mme Cosby est dans l'avion avec une combinaison de salopette et des boucles d'oreille en diamant et elle est sur le chemin du travail de son doctorat et j'ai dit: "Où est-ce que tout le monde est?" Et elle a dit: "Il n'y a que moi." J'ai dit: "Vous allez utiliser tout cet avion?" Et elle a dit: "Je le vaux bien." Juste comme ça. Et je suis allé, "Bien, si elle en vaut la peine, peut-être que je le vaux bien."
Entretien édité pour la longueur et la clarté.
Cette histoire a été publiée pour la première fois dans le numéro du 30 avril du magazine Hollywood Reporter. Pour recevoir le magazine, cliquez ici pour vous abonner.
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