Ciro Gomes: "It's a matter of modesty that Bolsonaro clarifies the Queiroz affair" | Brazil

Giselle Bezerra, companion of Ciro Gomes, receives the story in the lobby of the large apartment in which the couple lives on the beach of Iracema, in Fortaleza (CE). The living room, with breathtaking sea views, has simple furnishings. Gisele points out that it was the last space of the house to be furnished. The balcony was transformed into a playground to distract the youngest son, Gael, whom Ciro had had during his previous marriage and who spent the end of the year with him. On one of the walls, photos of the four children of Cyrus and the couple in Europe. Five minutes after my arrival, Cyrus enters the room with a beard. He says that he took the holidays to rest his face. He states that he studies astrophysics and writes a book on Brazil's political and economic trajectories. Throughout the interview, he demonstrates that he will attempt to take the place of the main opposition leader. "The PT is gone, now they have found someone who has the courage to face them, I'm PT post," he says. Asked about the upcoming elections, he said the party could consider his name in the presidential race but that it was too early to talk about it because the next four years will be a roller coaster ride. But he admits that it is necessary to build not a third way, but "the way". He also admitted to advising Lula to seek political asylum with an embbady.

The interview with Ciro Gomes took place on January 2nd. On the fourth day, pedestrians were asked to talk about the security crisis in Ceará, ruled by his ally, Camilo Santana (PT). Ciro said that he would like to wait a few days for more information and to be able to express his opinion

Question In his inaugural speech, Bolsonaro spoke of liberating the people from socialism. What did he mean by that?

Answer What is troubling is that he spoke of this in the inaugural speech, which is generally designed for the narrative. It was not meant to be a leapfrog, but what he's saying is a leapfrog that starts from the ignorance of the people. He badumes that the people are stupid, unable to know what socialism is. And in affirming this, he conceals in the word socialism all the conservative rancidity, which has two plans: the conservatism of customs and economic conservatism. It's a tragedy, because it means the comrade, when he starts the government, announces that he will stay on the platform. It says superficial nonsense and baderts itself in superficial antipetism.

P. Bolsonaro said that he would not accept bribery. But before his inauguration, his family was already involved in an alleged corruption scandal. Now that you're president, would not it be nice if this case is clarified?

R. It is imperative, especially for those who base their identity on moralism and who have the symbolic presence of (Sérgio) Moro, an exhibitionist judge, a moral scribe of the nation . And there are practical things: Bolsonaro, as a deputy, has already diverted his cabinet. Queiroz's case now is a potentially new crime. It's a matter of morality and decency to clarify this. Also because it was the cornerstone of the campaign that gave Bolsonaro's mandate to the presidency. If Bolsonaro lent money to what Queiroz, where is the check? Which day was it? Does it mean a new operation in Uruguay like Collor? Was it before or after the scandal, to try to cover the episode? If it was a loan, where did the money from Bolsonaro come from? These are concrete things about the president. Sérgio Moro is obliged to clarify this to the Brazilian nation. I want to take a break. I do not want to be a trumpet player like a rabid petista, who is more like a bolsominion . May the Bolsonaro take his feet at things. But in a hundred days, I have a whole platform on which I will start charging. Because it was the role that the nation gave me. The role of the opposition is to stimulate Bolsonaro to the democratic game, to force him to follow the democratic institutionality.

P. Do you think that Bolsonaro will build a pact of governability to approve the reforms in Congress?

R. He has this strength. The coincidence of the change of the year with the change of government predisposes the Brazilian society to help. Parliament is vulnerable to this public record that says, "Help the man! The man was elected, help him, do not bother." And we must have this sensitivity. Not with regard to Bolsonaro, but in respect of the millions of Brazilians who gave him the majority. But I do not know if he can make a governance pact. I, Ciro Gomes, do not know of any proposal from the Bolsonaro government.

P. Except for the legalization of arms.

R. The rhetoric of the legalization of arms is there, but I doubt its legality by provisional measure. The Supreme will tend to say that it is unconstitutional. Bolsonaro works with two diaries. We will reign more easily, which is on the agenda of the customs: reduce the criminal age, facilitate access to the weapon, aggravate the legislation in criminal matters. Because society is tired of violence and predisposed to experimenting with innovations. They simplify, generate misconceptions, but it will try to prove that it is trying to keep the promise and will maintain its political capital with some survival. The other goal, which we must stick to, is that of employment, a word he has never mentioned, nor even in the official discourse. We must appeal to the question of interests, the default of 63 million Brazilians who have the wrong name in the CPS. To discuss the issue of retirement. We need to discuss these issues as he will flee them. Here are two problems: the first is that these are very serious problems. The second is that he does not understand the problem, his team does not understand the problem and, if he understands, he misinterprets it. Therefore, the remedy that they will propose will be the wrong remedy, which will tend to aggravate the socio-economic disease of Brazil more than to mitigate it. It would be a serious mistake to accept Bolsonaro's provocation to discuss identity-basedness. The vast majority of Brazilians, who are poor, are unemployed, frightened by violence, abused in the health network … These people tend to understand our reasons if these reasons are discussed. But if we have to discuss the "gay kit" … that does not mean that the subject does not deserve to be discussed. I'm just saying that Bolsonaro can not choose the battlefield.

P. You have become the new leadership of the opposition. Would you accept the PT as opposed to the new government?

R. I think so Our enemy is not the PT. Now we do not need to compromise. I'm talking about the historical point of view. We must give the young Brazilian a platform where he does not need a savior of the homeland, a guru, a charismatic leader who, trapped in the prison, send a message. It's the bottom of the pit. That does not mean we leave Lula. The central question of the country can not be identitarista nor the salvation of Lula. While the agenda is as follows, we are doing exactly what Bolsonaro wants us to do. It would not win in any way in Brazil that I know if it was antipotism that petism prevailed. Palocci is an acknowledged defendant. And it's not a peripheral petista. It's the man Lula chose to lead the Brazilian economy for 8 years and Dilma chose to lead the government. Levy was chosen by Dilma. Michel Temer was chosen by Lula. If we continue to solve these problems because of the pain that Lula has suffered, do not think about the Brazilian question. It belongs to the opposition to watch, to charge. What does the PT bureaucracy do? He withdraws from possession. Now, when Aecio Neves rejects the recognition of Dilma's electoral success, the platform of coup d'etat begins. And the PT has been able to denounce that. How is it now explained to the Brazilian people that our opponent, even a deplorable one, is not recognized as a winner?

P. You were part of the Lula and Dilma governments. Ciro Gomes, in his apartment in Iracema Beach, in Fortaleza Marcus Moura Ciro Gomes, in his apartment on Iracema Beach, 19659018] R. I was part of the Lula government's first term. When they started making mistakes, I did not accept becoming a minister. I voted in the Dilma against all the contradictions, because the other side was the PSDB and Aécio, that I knew who he was acting on. What did I do this time? Said: campaign for them, I do not do anymore. I voted for Haddad as a citizen, but I no longer vote in this PT bureaucracy. I am no longer campaigning with them. From here in here, they became corrupted. It is the sad, hard and suffering reality. They rotted. They took a liking to the benefits of power.

P. Why did you, who have been so often together with the PT, not supported Haddad?

R. Because I had already done that to Dilma. There, Dilma was a person without training or experience, who never challenged an election. And Lula, taking advantage of his just popularity, decided to impose Dilma against all of us. We were, with predilection in the polls, Eduardo Campos … And the PT had no image. And he chose a person who was not traditionally PT. Why To Send All the stones in the way knew that Lula could not be a candidate for the law of the clean sheet. And they impose the candidacy of Lula, lie to the Brazilian people by exploiting the good faith of our poorest people to push him to the limit of elections and to put a person without authority.

P. Is Lula a political or common prisoner?

R. Common prisoner. If Lula was a political prisoner, he was not obliged to go to court. Lula is not condemned by Sergio Moro, whom I have always criticized. He is unanimously condemned by the Federal Regional Court. He tried various resources in STJ and STF. Therefore, by definition, he is a common prisoner. But if he understands that he is a political prisoner, he will not be able to resort to formal proceedings. I find the sentence that condemned him to be fragile. But that does not make him a political prisoner because he accepted the dynamics. For example, I was violently criticized – and this is what the PT forgets – when I proposed, when he was the victim of an unjust and unlawful coercive arrest, that if we thought he was a Political prisoner, we should turn him away from this arbitrary in an embbady and ask for political asylum.

P. What do you imagine for your future?

R. My mission today is to help the young Brazilian to understand our country and to define a course. I give lectures and I will launch a book that is a platform that includes Brazil and calls the debate to an intelligence and not to superficial mystifications. Because the animal that most resembles bolsominion (pejorative name of the followers of Bolsonaro) is the petista fanatic. Both for the bolsominion as for the fanatic of the PT, the devil can come to relativize the devil. When Aecio denies the legitimacy of Dilma's mandate, it's a coup d'etat. When Renan Calheiros, head of the Senate, does it … it's a blow. Then Haddad appears as an ally of Calheiros. Here in Ceará, Eunício de Oliveira, my opponent, and with whom I fought because of the PT, because I voted in impeachment, it was a coup d'etat. Now, Lula has prevented Dilma from being a candidate here in Ceará, to which she was invited and accepted, to impose her in Minas Gerais, where she dismantled Fernando Pimentel's alliance, for support Eunice Oliveira. To whom Lula and PT gave R $ 1 billion in untendered contracts to Petrobras. Fuck the bureaucracy of the PT. Any picking of purity. Sergio Machado shook Transpetro's hand, I was tired of telling that to Lula. So, PT, go easy, because I do not want to turn the PT into my opponent.

P. But you are transforming …

R. I am not, no. But each time they propose one, and that comes from your question, not because you interpret, but because they say, I will say, because I could not support the PT anymore. I swallowed everything I could swallow. And I rejoiced.

P. Do not you think that in the dispute between Haddad and Bolsonaro, it was not important to support Haddad to avoid going back to Brazil?

R. This was not in my hand. When they imposed themselves, in the way they imposed themselves, all the polls made it clear that it was a lost election. Everyone was watching him. Haddad got 70% of the votes in the second round here in Ceará. I have therefore supported Haddad. What I no longer do is campaign with this gang. It's quite different. If I thought it would make a difference, I swallowed again, as I swallowed it down there. Now, to force me, by solidarity with the progressive field … Haddad is progressive, without a doubt. But the PT is a corrupt force.

P. And how is the union of opposition forces in Congress going?

R. This is a practical diary. They decided to omit in possession. We stayed. You mean we have some commitment to Bolsonaro? No, we are committed to democracy, rites and values.

P. But this does not weaken the progressive field?

R. Depends Why the PT is not behaving? Why not open the conversation with others? He wants everything in the imposition of a rotten hegemony. That's it. Now, they have found someone who has the courage to face them. I am post PT.

P. Do you think that you are very much accused of it?

R. I am, but I am willing to explain to everyone. And in this, I want to create a current of opinion, freeing Brazil from this corrupt bureaucracy of the PT

P. Have you had the opportunity to talk to Lula before the first round to become his deputy?

R. No, he called me to this farce. Now, if I denounce a scam, a fraud and that he calls me to perfect this fraud, what kind of man am I, what kind of leader would I be in Brazil if for any ambition personal, dirty I told him that I felt insulted.

P. Do you intend to be a candidate again for the presidential election?

R. Anyone who knows Brazil, who has the experience that I have, badert that he is a candidate, is purely reckless. What will happen in the country over the next four years is a real roller coaster. I agree that my party will consider my candidacy, I will not exclude it, but I think I have a role to play outside the electoral process. Write, speak, organize the movement. Give reference to the Brazilian youth. There is only the Bolsonaro because there is this kind of petism. Do you think that Bolsonaro found what this childish, undemocratic and stupid attitude of the PT omitted from the solemn act of the president-elect? Do you think that Bolsonaro thought it was bad? Bolsonaro loved it. He says: "The government can not fail because otherwise the PT will come back". And they like it, in practice. And I'm going to break this joke, otherwise Brazil can not stand it.

P. Do you believe that this could be the third way?

R. Not the third way. We must build the road. Yes, because the PT has imitated, good and bad, the PSDB. Who formulated, in Brazil, was Fernando Henrique. And formulated in line with the international, neoliberal, pseudo-modernizing wave, the minimum state, the floating exchange rate, the primary surplus … and what was the PT's economic policy? Strictly the same. You mean that it was not a good government? It was so much that I helped. The minimum wage has improved, credit has improved, social badistance with compensatory social policies has improved a lot. Expansion of public university education. All of these things are good, but they were done as part of a conservative political economy that filled the banker 's bottom to make money. It is in the hands of the PT / PSDB that Brazil constitutes the most serious banking concentration of the capitalist world. While North America, the epicenter of capitalism, has 5,000 banks for the cheapest and least expensive customer, these people have ceded Brazil to three private banks, which make a profit 78% higher than that of n & rsquo; Any bank history of humanity. That's what counts. Because in a non-inflationary regime, the money that is missing from the pockets of the people, this defect that so humiliates the people, is the money that is put in the hands of the bankers. During the PT / PSDB government, we created the following phenomenon: six Brazilians have an income equivalent to the fortune that totals 100 million Brazilians. Then, these 100 million Brazilians are forced to comply with the Bolsa Família. Is not this irrelevant? No, it's very important. But the country I dream of will emancipate his people with decent work and emancipatory education.