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A year and a half ago, Fernando Lima was re-elected for a third term as director of the Greater Lusitanian Oriente. His motto during the campaign was "renew to continue" and one of the priorities was to increase the rigor and recruitment requirement for Freemasonry.
He maintains that all Freemasons should call themselves Freemasons. Can you convince your brothers that this would be good for Freemasonry?
I think there is a general tendency to take over today. I'm not saying that everyone is convinced or does not think that there are constraints in society regarding the hypothesis. António Arnaut and António Reis have always inspired me: there is no reason why the Freemasons do not take over today.
There was a proposal in Parliament defending that members say they belonged to Freemasonry. , what football clubs were partners … How did you see that?
False. A fundamental principle of open societies is freedom of conscience, which is respect for one's convictions and convictions. There is no need to create anathemas on people to reveal their inner convictions … It's a bad principle and a lack of respect for people's conscience.
But would not there be more transparency? It goes even to say that the masons should take over …
As transparent as I ask someone to reveal his badual orientation.
But masons are accused of having exchanged favors among themselves …
That does not exist … I do not like to talk about Freemasonry, there is several Freemasons. I speak of Freemasonry as I understand it here in the Great Lusitanian of the East. It's a human institution like any other. Of course, here we have the best, we have people who are less good and we also have things that do not always pay us much, as in any other institution, whether in the press or in the courts … I can not say that there are not two or three doing things that are against our reproachable principles. But to say that he who enters Freemasonry is because he conspires, he will exchange favors … Normally, these people resist here shortly. We know that some people enter Freemasonry because they think they can make a career, they know … Here at the Grand Orient Lusitanien, I almost guarantee that whoever thinks it will not be long.
Was re-elected for a year and a half. with a program that promised change. Has he managed to make some changes, namely to open more Freemasonry abroad?
Raquel Varela, Pacheco Pereira …
Pacheco Pereira has always defended that deputies be forced to say if they are Freemasons …
Yes, but when he comes here, his Grandfather was Freemason … We had debates all over the country, we discussed the state budget here with members of the parliamentary committee. A few days ago, I issued a statement against the values and principles that led to the election of Jair Bolsonaro in Brazil.
But Bolsonaro was supported by Brazilian Freemasonry.
I told you that there were Freemasons and Freemasons. I do not identify with Brazilian Freemasonry. But you can ask why we made the statement about Bolsonaro without doing anything else. But we have made many communiques, sometimes in connection with the European Freemasonry – people do not notice – against the fact that the Sicilian Parliament pbaded a law forbidding the masons to hold public office, the fact that the league Salvini of the North wants to make a law to prohibit secret societies, a law exactly the same as ours in 1935 (which forbade Freemasonry), which was also inspired by a law of Mussolini. I do not know if many people know it. In 1925, Gramsci and Mussolini quarreled in front of the Italian Parliament, as Mussolini had proposed a law that we had copied in 1935. But the European Masonic Alliance protested against the situation in Hungary, where the life of the Masons
Are Freemasons persecuted in Hungary?
They are not persecuted in the sense of being arrested, but the environment is so claustrophobic that they have trouble being comfortable. But in Hungary, there are also anti-Semitic persecutions. In Poland itself, Freemasonry suffered setbacks. But why did the Great Lusitanian of the Great East make a statement about Brazil? Because we have a common heritage, language, we have a stronger bond.
And it was a mason [D. Pedro] who founded Brazil …
It is a Freemason who founded Brazil. And to be listening to things like a beautiful woman, is to be raped … or to say "some tortured, the best, is to have killed everything malt". This for us … and the vote does not arrive! Hitler was also elected by vote. Democracies are also legitimized by the way in which they respect human rights.
Is there a decline? We are looking at Donald Trump in the United States, another country founded by Freemasons …
It is obvious that since the Middle Ages until now, the world has come a long way. This is not what it is about.
70 years ago, the world was horrible …
A lot has changed. But I have the feeling that in the last 20 years – and I quote Pacheco Pereira, see where I already have it – we have experienced serious civilizational setbacks compared to what has been realized over the past 200 years.
?
This element of the democracies [democracia ditadura] as I like to call these dictatorships … half-disguised, the Trump, Bolsonaro, Hungary, not to mention Southeast Asia. Human rights are a theme that we have discussed a lot here in Eastern Grand Lusitan, namely the problem of posthumanism and transhumanism. Artificial intelligence, nanotechnologies, biotechnologies. What will the world look like in 50 years? Are we robots? Will we be able to program our children? There will be a moment when we will have to tell the scientists: from there, it stopped. I want to continue to love, to die, to love my children, to have affection, to have tears in my eyes. It is that of being human. I do not want to live up to 200 years old. And new technologies further accentuate what is the biggest problem in the world, social inequality. We Freemasons are humanists. We want progress that does not put an end to humanity.
Tell me one thing: how can you enter Freemasonry? Imagine I wanted to go in – I do not want – how did I do it?
We have a very interesting feminine freemasonry, be careful …
But how are you doing? Would you go talk to a bricklayer friend?
This is usually an indication of a friend or acquaintance. But you can also send us an e-mail.
Can you write an e-mail?
You can write an email indicating that you wish to join the Grand Orient Lusitano. In his case, as it was male obedience, it was more complicated (laughs).
Okay, so I was a man.
We named two or three masons here – we call it an "allegiance" – this is not in the sense of investigation, it is talking with the person, what is it? He does in life, to recopy a little the old phrase that masons have said: that for Freemasonry, only "good and good manners" come in. (Laughs) It's a sentence where everything is fine (laughs). I have here some Freemasons who came this way.
Send an email?
Yes, yes. Or by letter or email.
But does not an inquiry such as this allow entry into the SIS?
No, it's a conversation. How does he call, what does he do in life, what are his moral principles, his values. Do not do that.
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